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Vigil and memorial tomorrow for the Pittsburgh synagogue slaughter victims and survivors
By adamg on Sat, 10/27/2018 - 10:03pm
Several Boston-area Jewish groups are organizing a vigil at the Parkman Bandstand at 2 p.m. on Sunday, following today's murder of 11 by an anti-Semite with an AR-15:
We are as devastated as we are horrified. We have reached out to the Pittsburgh Jewish community to express our support. We pray that the families of the victims find comfort during this unimaginably painful time and for the full recovery of the wounded. And we offer our gratitude to the brave first responders in Pittsburgh who risked their lives to prevent further bloodshed.
In our close-knit Jewish communal world, many of us have friends and family in Pittsburgh, and know congregants at the Tree of Life Synagogue. These are our brothers and sisters, our friends, our family, and our children. ...
Anti-Semitism and hatred in its many forms are antithetical to our faith and an affront to humanity. For the victims, we will mourn. For the living, we will continue to fight for a better, more just world.
May the memories of those we lost today be a blessing.
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Comments
Meanwhile, the Herald blames you for Pittsburgh
Yes, you, you pusillanimous Clinton supporting, pantsuit wearer, you're as much to blame for a Jew-hating mass murderer as all the rightwing trolls and their Dear Leader with their cute little globalist dog whistles spurring the mentally ill to go on rampages with their AR-15s:
ugh
Shameless.
But we knew that.
I know they've mostly been laid off
but the rest of the people who work there should quit.
Do you mean the Dear Leader
Do you mean the Dear Leader who is pro-Israel and has a Jewish son-in-law?
Yep
Dear Leader with his house Jews.
That's classy
Now we know why you let "white bread wop" slide a few months back.
Anyone care to guess uhub policy on referring to those other "house" people by a certain epithet?
The American Jewish community has not as a group internalized a very important lesson: your own safety is first and foremost your own responsibility. Trump was completely right when he said that if there good guys with guns there then this might not have been as bad.
Calling people names and pushing Orwellian inversions (you know he's an anti-Semite because he held a seder at the White House and has been close with Jewa his whole life!) doesn't change facts. And the fact is that every single bad thing ever is Trump's fault in some way in your mind.
I hope you get past your irrational rage and realize that every day is NOT Kimono Day at the art museum.
Three police officers were shot
How many do you think should be needed to keep a synagogue safe?
Honest answer: zero
Any large gathering should contain a percentage of private citizens proficient in the use of deadly force and this fact should be widely publicized as a form of deterrent.
But that's beside the point because in this sad case the number of armed good guys was zero. My reading of the reporting leads me to understand that police were not there guarding the services but arrived after the killing was done.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/us/active-shooter-pittsburgh-synagogu...
Hahaha you’re the funniest
Hahaha you’re the funniest person on here
"American Jewish Community"
There is no separate, monolithic "American Jewish Community," you anti-semitic piece of garbage. There are Americans, some who are Jews, some who are Christian, some who are Puerto Rican, some who are black, some who are gay, some who are white, some who are racist a-holes like yourself. But it's people like you and your fellow MAGA stooges who are trying to divide the American community into specific groups to maintain your thin hold on white male privilege.
There were three, count them THREE policemen with guns there who got shot by this single gunman. You think a rabbi packing heat would've stopped this psycho with an assault rifle? You have the unmitigated gall to blame Jews for their own slaughter?!! F you and your effing "kimono day," Roman.
Thank you sir, may I have another?
I don't think you understood what I wrote.
Oh, we understand it very well.
Period.
Roman
Shouldn't you be out putting more stickers on your van
He's going to need ...
a bigger van.
He didn't pull the trigger
But he set the tone for what happened.
Stochastic Terrorism
Throw invectives. Assign deadly blame. Stand back and wait.
Kinda like calling for the President
to be assassinated and settling for one nutter shooting up the Congressional Republican baseball team?
Kinda like calling me all sorts of names, all but accusing me of standing guard over the death camps and having a bomb factory in my basement, and what happens...happens?
Look in the mirror long and hard please.
Someone called you names??? OH THE HORROR!
You start a mudfight on here every damn day, Roman. People who start mudfights shouldn't complain that they get dirty.
Trump confidante and stalwart conservative congressman
Steve King said this:
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/413601-steve-king-members-of-nazi-lin...
Whatabout that!
House Jews?
Seriously?
You've become exactly what you rail about.
Oh, and nice homophobic slur, Kaz. You're not witty, either.
This used to be a great site.
Used to be.
buh bye then
Don't let a packet hit your ass on the way out.
GTFO
What homophobic slur? You're as dumb as your comment is useless.
Maybe it's not a slur per se
But you did accuse me of wanting to perform sex acts on our president.
You Should Look Up Christian Zionism sometime
It's the reason cultists like Mike Pence like to support Israel, so it is around to be destroyed later.
Who is "Robbins" ?
A columnist there
His oeuvre.
"A columnist there"...
....who; by the way is Jewish. Convenient, how that wasn't mentioned. I'm sure that it had nothing to do with framing your narrative
Oh, if only I'd known he was MoT ...
I still would have written the same thing. I haven't read his column, my complaint is with the way the Herald framed it on their front page.
*sound of teeth grinding*
So, Adam, what is your policy on salty language? I'm finding my ability to resist sorely tested these days...
That's a good point. It's also on the NRA and the Gun Lobby.
If guns were more regulated, and not so accessible, and more extensive and intensive background checks were given for prospective buyers, and if Congress would close the loophole that permits illegal gun sales to go on at gun shows, many more lives would be saved, and we wouldn't be constantly having these mass shootings.
Unfortunately, however, as a society and a culture, the United States totally depends upon and revolves around firearms, and it has come home to roost in more ways than one.
Small headline correction
From what you posted, it looks like the vigil is for the dead as well as survivors, to mourn as well as offer what comfort we can. Baruch dayan emet.
Thanks
Headline changed.
Looks like
The fucking crackpot felt theatened by the line of asylum seekers at the southern border. Thought, for some reason, that "the Jews" were "letting them in." This one is on Trump, too. Republicans are truly the empty core of life
So it's Trump's fault
because it was Trump who blamed the caravan on the Jews? Huh?
Hey, fucknut.
When is anything Trump's fault for you?
Never?
Then shut the fuck up because we already know you want to lick his orange taint. You add nothing but blind antagonism. Move on. You're not witty. You're not interested in honest debate. You purely exist here to defend the right for insanity and lies to poison the discussion.
Plus
Deny that his being both a Jew or a Foreigner will be an issue if he just plays redneck hard enough.
Looks like it's an issue already
Look no further than above this post for people telling me to be afraid on account of being a Jew and being an immigrant.
'cept it's the left that's leading the race to hell by a mile.
Hey Roman
You're in a thread about a vigil for slaughtered Jewish people by a right wing extremist whining about how you don't like liberals. Pretty clear you have no self-awareness or shame.
I don't like Donald Trump either, but
the hard fact is that our gun culture has been in place since the United States' founding, and we're seeing the net results, in more ways than one, including these mass-shootings. We've been having these mass-shootings well before Donald Trump was elected to the White House.
Hard fact
It is also a hard fact that guns used to be for hunting and maintaining farmsteads - tools. Now they are fetish objects designed such that persons with no skill can inflict massive body counts at the touch of a trigger.
Don't conflate the two cultures.
Shooter believed Trump controlled by Jews
I'm hearing that the shooter believed Trump is "controlled by Jews." So which is it? We have always had and always will have people with psychological problems. To blame Trump is a new low.
No
A "new low" is someone shooting up a synagogue. Blaming Trump is called "using your eyes and ears." It's Trump and his fellow republicans who keep talking (and tweeting) darkly about "Soros" and other "globalist" money funding all manner of activities the republicans have been using to incite hate. Look up the term "stochastic terrorism."
I just had a delayed epiphany
"Stochastic terrorism " is a fancy way to claim that correlation is causation. As an argument it is most effective when used by lefties against righties because only lefties can effect a sufficiently smug affect to have any hope of pulling it off.
Word Salad
You're gonna need to have a better grasp of the english language to "effectively" play your pretend-erudite troll game. I mean, you somehow managed to use effect and affect exactly wrong. Also, as I said before, please F-off you victim-blaming, semi-literate troll.
With dressing
"smug affect" is a valid and meaningful combination of words:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affect_%28psychology%29
Your ardent belief that they won't come for you
Keep up the delusion. Your time will come if this continues.
Look up "enabler" in the dictionary. Also, check into what happened to the collaborationist Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto who served as police.
My ardent belief in 2nd amendment security is why they are
less likely to come for me.
Every they. Anti-Semites, socialists, fascists, "anti" fascists. All of them.
I'm not blind. Quite the opposite. Who's blind and deluded is the dyed-in-the-wool leftist minorities and immigrants and Jews that will see this tragedy and conclude that the appropriate course of action to is to wish real hard and hope that if only the Dems get absolute power then they'll turn the country inside out and get all the sharp objects out of the hands of all the bad men.
That's not how I think. They can come for me. But they best know it'll be the last thing they do. That's what the 2nd amendment is for. And that's why all those able-bodied and willing should be proficient in the use of firearms. Especially people with targets on their backs like ethnic and religious minorities.
Belief?
The 2nd Amendment is a law, and the constitution and bill of rights are a body of laws.
This is not a religion. Belief is for religions, laws are for republics.
Belief.
The 2nd amendment is a law that codifies cultural values into a legally binding agreement between all of us. The belief is in self-defense and a conspicuous check on overreaching governmental power.
Just like the 1st amendment is a law that enshrines the cultural value of free peaceable expression of ideas.
One can believe in these principles. One can also use "belief in the laws" as shorthand for what I just said.
Just like the Pittsburgh cops
They came for Bowers. He injured 3 of them. You're probably cool with that though. I mean, after he killed all the Jews, he was just defending himself from the cops with his 2nd Amendment Rights. That's what it's there for.
Or when someone breaks the law, do they lose the 2nd Amendment Right to execute government officials who try to take their guns? You're okay with that, right?
So, when they come for you and your guns...as long as the laws are changed and your guns are no longer legally owned, then you'll turn them over, right? To stay legal so you don't lose your 2nd Amendment Right to execute them for approaching you because you broke the law at that point, right?
OR...you just say stupid shit and don't actually consider the consequences or how it was actually play out in real life. Fuck off, Roman.
So you're OK with disarming this Jew?
Or all of us?
Not my problem
I'm okay with changing the laws and/or Constitution so that it's illegal for you to have your firearm.
How you choose to respond to that change in the laws isn't my problem.
Lovely
Should it also be illegal for me to throw a punch in reciprocity to a physical assault?
When you need them most
When you need them most, police cannot protect you.
Good point.
Not learning your lesson
If the police can't stop him, then a bodyguard at the door...a 90 year old with a glock...you being Mr. Macho...you aren't likely to stop him either.
The time to stop this guy was far before the minute he started opening fire.
Your compensation popgun...
...is not gonna save you if "they" ever come for you. And you won't even scratch the paint.
thanks for the
new (to me) term. stochastic terrorism.
this is a powerful definition that we very much need to understand; furthermore it provides a clear logical basis for why this violence incited by Trump.
According to on-site
According to on-site reporters, and backed up by video, Trump election rallies frequently included one or more groups marching with the "blood and soil" chant -- the chant most closely associated ("Blut und Boden") with Hitler and white/Aryan nationalism. I am certain that then-candidate Trump never once said "these guys have no place in our camp." Now, being a virulent racist is not the same thing as turning a blind eye to the virulent racism of some of your supporters. But it's still pretty high up there in the list of abhorrent stuff.
Now that said, some of the stuff that Trump supporters claim is probably valid. CNN -- the shabby remnant of a formerly-respectable news network -- does go out of its way to pick at Trump. Apparently, they think that their viewership goes up when they play up controversial stuff rather than sticking to news.
And for that matter, there's a sprinkling of truth to the Herald's claim, albeit harder to discover. Those on the left who watch/listen only to the media that broadcast news they want to hear are no better off than those who get their news from Fox and Drudge.
Trump got the electoral votes, but a lot more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump 2 years ago. If those of us on the left want to win back political control of the country, we need to do a MUCH better job of listening to those who voted for Trump and understanding their complaints. As far as I can see, there's not much of that taking place (on either side).
Nothing to understand
A sizeable faction of this country feels that racism, sexism, transphobia, xenophobia, etc., is either something they support or something they're willing to overlook (which, honestly, what's the difference?).
There's nothing more I need to understand about those people. What I need to continued to address and understand is why so many people who call themselves moderates or progressives won't draw their own line in the sand and tell those people that their beliefs and hatred are completely unwelcome. Moderates and progressives need to stop making excuses for these people or pretending it's noble to "tolerate different beliefs." Bigotry is not a valid "other side of the issue" to be tolerated. It's wrong, and every time we progressives don't speak out and call it what it is, and let people know it's absolutely unwelcome, we're complicit.
When someone lets you know they're fine with bigotry, do you think it's enough to just politely express your disagreement? Because it's not. We need to be calling these people out, not making excuses for "different beliefs." We need to be standing up and saying that we will not permit supporters of bigotry in our homes, schools, houses of worship, or businesses, because we are choosing to keep them safe and respectful places. We need to choose the safety of our brothers and sisters who are of color, of minority religions, sexual minorities, with disabilities, over the supposed virtue of tolerating those who have no concern for these people's safety.
When people ask how genocidal maniacs managed to take over entire civilizations, and why "good people" just let them do it, well...
So yes, we are all responsible for Trump and for the increase in hate crimes that has occurred. We all need to step up and be responsible for stopping it.
With that attitude, there's nothing you can
understand.
But still:
Lesson 0: border enforcement is not bigotry.
Lesson -1: borders are not bigotry.
I knew it
Can't have different beliefs. Wow.
Can't even tolerate them. Just wow.
Do you tolerate Nazis?
Old-timer, I'd think you'd know better, but apparently not.
So Nazi
Such collaborator. Much dumbass. Wow.
And "lying press"
The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/10/24/the-ugly-hi...
Each of us should ask what we can do
to lower the temperature.
What the press can do is to stop passing off transparently partisan propaganda as objective reporting. Then when someone smears them as the luggenpresse it will be easier to dismiss as nonsense. Right now...it's not as easy to dismiss as it should be.
calling a lie a lie
is not partisan.
and they dont even do it enough. they let him get away with pretty much whatever he wants.
No but calling a truth a lie is
So is making accusations of what is claimed to be criminal impropriety in the absence of evidence or even in the presence of evidence to the contrary.
If Trump is guilty of anything it's of refusing to politely avoid asking provocative questions that no one in the establishment has a good answer for and for being the one to call out bullshit that's there for all to see but pretend doesn't exist.
Hey Roman...
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Just a "provocative question". Nothing false or inflammatory about it.
"They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."
"I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering."
"According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population."
"I think Islam hates us. There's a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it. There is an unbelievable hatred of us."
I can go on...
The "tone" everyone decries
The "tone" everyone decries is a direct outgrowth of the power-grabbing that Republicans have been doing, most overtly lately but for decades. They don't believe in democracy. Trump is one of the builders, but not the architect.
We need to have a national
We need to have a national conversation about social media.
Trump can't
come out and credibly state unequivocally that this shooter and other lunatic soil blooders Trumpenkriegen Nazi freaks are not allowed under the umbrella of his camp because Trump has already made clear that such lunatics are in fact welcome in his arena--and he maintains that message ongoing.
It doesn't matter what the fuck he says if it is positive, and his followers know that unless he is saying something nasty he is just trying to fool the press of Western democracies--so they wait. The only thing he is ever communicating is more negativity for his camp to feast on--they know the that the "positive" message is just a temporary tissue paper for "liberal tears." The human brain has not evolved in 150 thousand years; his base is demonstrating the widespread failure of rational scientific culture to create peaceable human animals. There is a humane answer, however, but "hearing them out" is NOT it.
In terms of hearing them out--that is not something that we should ever do in earnest. They don't need to be heard. They need an economy that is robust enough that it will pacify them into ceasing to vote. And, they will stop voting entirely if they have jobs. Voting is clearly not held in the right regard by them, and they will let it go. They only view voting as another waffle stop to the neck of the most vulnerable.
The main mistake liberal culture has made is thinking that these people will ever come on board. They won't. They need to be treated like human beings. They need jobs and healthcare. Secure that for them, and you can pretty much forget about them continuing to be a political menace. They aren't cut out for politics. It's an abstraction too far from the violence of their bitter hearts.
Liberals need to stop trying to force tolerance on ignorant people and start creating an economy that can lull these nasty trolls back to the sleep of pacified infants.
Truth in darkness
Subtract out in the insults and that's been the Republican position since before Trump even thought about being Trump. Congratulations. You got there. It took 11 dead, but you got there.
Here's how I would have put it:
Liberals need to stop trying to ramrod their idea of utopia down everyone's throat and stop undermining the conditions necessary for broad-based material prosperity and social cohesion in this country so that people who think they have little to lose are few and far between. That means specifically not accusing a large chunk of the country of being ignorant, greedy, and hateful when they aren't, not mounting well-funded and slickly-produced "grass roots" campaigns to ostracize and bankrupt ordinary people for having opinions contrary to yours, and refraining for pointedly celebrating and/or hurrying along the demise of the white male heterosexual.
I have a better plan
You need to get the fuck out of threads where you're clearly out of your depth (which is to say all of them), and stop dropping what you think are truth-bombs about those terrible liberals when we're talking about a goddamn anti-Semitic massacre by a goddamn white nationalist. I've tried coming at this more circumspectly, but you clearly don't understand nuance, tone, subtext, or quite possibly the written word, so let's just lay this out in words I'm sure you can understand: you are a first-grade dumbass and a buffoon, who is hiding behind a false name and a bullshit cover story in order to spew hatred. You're doing this by banking on the generosity of spirit of a man whose religion is now openly under attack by the Trump brigade, and I honestly have no idea why he hasn't swung the banhammer your way. If this were an actual physical forum in which you were trying to get traction for your hideous ideas, you would have been physically assaulted months ago, and no one would be the least bit sorry for it. Go sell crazy somewhere else, you semiliterate piece of shit right-wing mouthpiece.
Seems I've blown your mind.
More's the pity. About 1/3 of us Jews vote Republican. My anecdotal evidence leads me to believe it's actually a majority of Jews from the former Soviet Union.
I guess the world isn't all neat and cookie cutter. Find peace with that.
No True Scotsman Fallacy
Call for "action" and incite violence.
Claim that any that do violence "can't be ours" or "didn't result from incitement".
Lather Rinse Repeat.
Dear Leader was Obama, pick a
Dear Leader was Obama, pick a new nick name for this one.
So we have had Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump. As a country we are terrible at picking Presidents. I fear where the pendulum will swing next.
Nope
Obama, for all his faults, understood and respected the Constitution.
Trump is a lying, narcissistic kleptocrat with fascist tendencies who would just as soon have himself anointed emperor and throw his political enemies in prison, if not just have them executed.
Ummmmm yup, here is a video
Ummmmm yup, here is a video from 2008 calling Obama Dear Leader. You’re 8 years too late.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=54tjbgJmLFg
Ha.
DACA was and is unconstitutional.
The individual mandate of the ACA was and is unconstitutional.
Lois Lerner's fun with the IRS was so damned unconstitutional that even congressional Democrats condemned it.
That took all of thirty seconds.
In thirty more, I can point to some choice examples of the MSM building Obama's personality cult and deliberately and repeatedly shielding him from criticism by derailing any and all discussion of the merits of his policy proposals with nonsequitor reminders about how he was the first black president and not so subtle intimations that the only possible motive for criticizing his performance was racism.
I might be wrong but as far
I might be wrong but as far as I know, no court has ruled DACA was unconstitutional. So that is just your opinion.
I thought The Supreme Court ruled in 2012 that the Individual mandate was constitutional.
As far as Lois Lerner goes, Jeff Session's Justice Department wouldn't reopen the case. In a letter to members of Congress, the Justice Department said that "reopening the criminal investigation would not be appropriate based on the available evidence."
You are both correct and incorrect
To set the tone for the discussion: the most recent ruling on DACA is that DHS wasn't allowed to discontinue it based on its blatant unconstitutionality because only judges are allowed to rule things unconstitutional. The implications of this ruling are that any executive department can do any damn thing it pleases and can't stop unless a court tells it to.
Roberts in 2012 decided that compelling people to engage in commerce with legally delineated entities fell under the taxation power granted to Congress (either under Article 1 or under the 16th Amendment, I forget). I don't agree with that reasoning. Compelled commerce between private parties is a bad precedent. It ain't like car insurance: no one has to drive; everyone has to suck down oxygen.
All that says is that Lois Lerner covered her tracks well and we can't put her away for anything. Fine. The results of what she did are self-evident. We live in a system where guilt must be proven incontrivertibly. That means some bad actors will get away with shit. That's fine so long as we aren't blind to what's going on.
Now's where you accuse me of moving the goal posts.
Why can't it be both....
.
....1) Yes, the current incendiary political climate has been inflamed by Herr Trump and,
2) and also yes, the death toll might have been reduced had they had weaponry to fight back with so they wouldn't feel like they were so helpless in waiting for a response from law enforcement
2) Nope
The guy who slaughtered 11 innocent people managed to shoot four highly trained and armed police officers. All that more guns would have done would have been to increase the body count.
Not arguing....
But I do know several temples in the Boston area who used the same armed company for their Saturday services. I am not 100% sure if they are there every Saturday, but I know they are there at some Saturdays at some of the larger temples.....
Yes, and I know ...
There are congregations that now lock their doors on Saturdays and station a senior congregation member at the door, who only admits people he recognizes.
And it's sad, so sad - do churches have to employ armed guards? Do they lock their doors before the start of Sunday services?
But we're straying a bit from the point. The President of the United States said fewer people would have died if only people attending a bris had been packing. Do we really need to go through the whole good-man-with-a-gun fallacy here? Because good men with guns showed up at the synagogue and the shooting didn't stop. The question should really be: How do we keep people like this loser Nazi from getting his hands on a weapon that lets him carry out a mass murder.
That's just willful obtuseness
The cops showed up and went in after he was done killing 11 people. You make it sound like they were there waiting to get picked off first.
Adam, can you drop the Shiva
Adam, can you drop the Shiva campaign ads?
They're particularly offensive on this post.
Hmm ...
They're coming in via one of the ad networks I'm using. Will see if I can block them in the morning (well, later this morning, that is).
You can block them
See Sleeping Giants for help if you need it.
There are people that have fallen for the biggest political
con job in history. Some are dumb. Some are willfully ignorant and take their cue from Fox Newts and talk radio. Some are more sophisticated and employ technology in their effort to maintain supremacy. All are antethsis to American values. Whataboutism is a temporary smoke screen that will run its course and the majority of Americans being good and decent will come too.