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Man climbs up on crucifix outside South End cathedral, breaks both of Jesus's arms, police say
By adamg on Wed, 10/25/2023 - 5:13pm
Boston Police report arresting an Attleboro man they say climbed up on a cross outside the Cathedral of the Holy Cross yesterday evening, then began to "swing and hang from it," snapping off both of the Jesus statue's arms in the process.
WBZ repoirts several bystanders spotted Michael Patzelt, 37, of Attleboro, trying to pull the crucifix down and began yelling at him before police arrived. He knocked a woman's hat off, police say.
Patzelt was arraigned in Boston Municipal Court today on a charge of vandalism in Boston Municipal Court, police said. WBZ, which posted a photo of the new Jesus de Milo, reported that Patzelt's attorney described him as "remorseful" and said he did not intend to damage the cross.
Innocent, etc.
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Comments
“and said he did not intend to damage the cross”
… he meant no ’arm.
to a battle of wits
he comes unarmed
Eye! Eye! Eye!
You look 'armless, hop in!
This should be investigated as a hate crime.
Seems pretty suspicious.
Hate Crime
Simple As That.
It is.
Adam - The "Jesus De Milo" thing is tasteless.
I really think there's a difference
between the typical nut who vandalizes a Catholic statue, and a clear-headed Jew-hater who sprays a swastika on a temple. I'm a Catholic myself, and I have never felt fear seeing a vandalized statue, just sadness and perhaps pity for the nut/perp. (the protesters tossing condoms at an ordination are a different breed all together).
Very irresponsible use of that term, John Boy.
.
No It is not.
Somebody breathes the wrong way on another culture's symbols and everyone runs around beating their sternums and wailing.
This is a symbol of something to many, many millions of people.
Go piss up a rope if you want to play the double standard game you twerp.
There’s no double standard in play
It’s a hate crime if it is motivated by hate, and committed with the intent to cause misery. Otherwise it’s just a thoughtless idiot climbing on a statue. There’s a pretty obvious difference.
Show us the factual evidence to back up your claim, John-boy.
Johnny, please tell us the "culture" of Michael Patzelt, 37, of Attleboro - since you seem to know he is of "another culture". Or is it you just need to play a victim because you're so fragile, "you twerp"?
What culture does Christian symbology belong to?
?
John
That's not how hate crimes work and you know it.
Sure Thing
I will just swing off a menorah in a park in a few weeks, break it, and say "It isn't a hate crime" and you will all agree. Yup. Sure.
thumbs up
for the sheer effort you’re putting into this bullshit lol
Haha!
Anything for attention.
I'll agree with that
But then you just told us all of your intent to commit an act of vandalism just to try to prove a point.
Did you stop and read what you just wrote?
This would literally be you confessing to it not being a hate crime...
I will agree, depending...
This really isn't all that complicated
He may be mentally ill.
We will see, but it should be investigated as a hate crime. What did he say to the priest? Did he express any motivation to bystanders and people who tried to stop him?
Gaffin is trolling you and other devout Catholics with the Venus de Milo comment.
Maybe?
A hate crime is a crime that targets a group based on ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender, disability, etc. Vandalism of a religious icon doesn't indicate a hate crime, any more than any other crime committed against a person of that religion is automatically a hate crime. In the absence of any statement or expression by the perpetrator that indicates animus toward the religion as such, and particularly when the target was a symbol of a religion that is not oppressed, that is culturally dominant, and that is used as an excuse by some of its adherents to oppress others, it's harder to make the case that it was a hate crime. If it is, it should be fairly obvious.
Bullshit
It's at worst a mental health issue. You wouldn't know hate crime if you slipped in it...oh wait, I forgot cis wyt christians are under attack by (checks notes):
Barbie
Jewish Space Lazers
Drag Queens
Have you considered getting into sci-fi writing? Your imagination is...something.
Barbie
Barbie is obviously Jewish, and may be a drag queen, and of course she has Space Lasers (note: LASER is an acronym; you can't respell it or it doesn't mean anything); she has everything. But she would never turn her Space Lasers on cis wyt xtians. She likes Ken too much.
Ken doesn't talk about this
Ken doesn't talk about this much, since it's his position that religion should be a strictly private matter, but he's actually been a serious Buddhist since he was a teenager.
I don't think it's tasteless.
I think it's clever.
(Lest anyone misunderstand, I am referring to Adam's Jesus De Milo remark)
So inconsiderate. Some of the
So inconsiderate. Some of the nicest old
Ladies ever will
See this and just be heart broken.
LMAO
Jesus de Milo...
Sorry dude. Even I'm not that
Sorry dude. Even I'm not that religious, but Jesus is history's most published human of all time and he seems to be pretty undestructible no matter what you do or opine. You, however, are another story. Glad Jesus decided to drop you on the pavement.
Not too sure about that
As far as I can tell, he's written a lot fewer books than, say, Stephen King - and even the stuff he is credited for, he appears to have used as many as 4 co-writers!
Written about not published.
Written about not published. You knew what I meant. Sigh.
He didn't write anything, I think?
There's an unauthorized biography, though.
The Authorized Version
According to Evangelical christians, God wrote the whole Bible, every word, using various human dictaphones. He even wrote the Jesus story four times, through four different humans, and the four accounts, though different, are all perfect in every detail.
I know this, because, long, long, ago, I was one of them.
Everybody knows King James
Everybody knows King James wrote the bible.
Comment deleted
If you're going to shit post, at least shit post about the topic of the original story, 'kay?
I think I'm glad I missed
I think I'm glad I missed that one. Thanks @adamg!
People sometimes say "but you
People sometimes say "but you're an anon!" as if having a registered account at UHub bestowed any kind of wisdom upon you.
Consider: every comment I type that you see on the site gets reviewed and approved by Adam or his henchpeople before it goes up. On the other hand, registered UHub user Magoo can instantly post whatever nonsense occurs to them.
On second thought...
disregard what I said above - it’s complete twaddle.
Also, I am a giant pink hippopotamus.
Question
These stories always leave me with questions. For tonight’s news, I have 2:
- What is the story behind the shot-up SUV? Specifically, does it belong to people “known to police”? In a way indicating a logical connection to the crime? Or just a wrong-place-wrong-time situation?
- For the story about the vandalized crucifix, why is an Attleboro guy doing in the South End? I realize we have the right to travel/commute/visit/move for all kinds of reasons. But this specific location is a 5-10 minute walk from Mass Cass and several shelters. Is that what brought the suspect to the area?
From my limited experience with the criminal system, I know that this type of info is likely to come out at trial, but also that any possible trial is months or years away.
Is there any way those of us who aren’t able to hang out in court and don’t have Lexis Nexis accounts can ever follow these smaller news stories at this level of detail?
Not a huge mystery
Can't speak to the SUV, but the article about the statue makes it pretty clear that the vandal is likely acutely mentally ill, suffering from addiction, or some combo of both. He lost what was probably his best bet for secure housing in Attleboro and shows up in the nearest large city where it is a little easier to be homeless. Pretty common profile among homeless populations in most large cities.
Agree there's no evidence of a hate crime in the stories
A hate crime requires evidence of specific intent that the act was motivated by hatred of a racial, religious, sex, sexual preference etc group. Mental illness is kind of the opposite of specific intent.
Also agree that in a different case with different protected classes, people here are quick to assume a hate crime without evidence.
Also agree the levity and mocking tone is in big contrast with the way such an incident damaging symbols of another protected class would be treated.
"Protected Class"
You mean minority groups who face real threats. Groups that need protection. When I see people grafitting a mosque, say, I know the intention is to make a minority group feel unwanted in this country and cause real fear.
Christianity is by FAR the dominant religion and a cross is a signifier of the dominant culture in New England and the country, which is why you can make harmless jokes about some loopy dude swinging from a big statue of Jesus* without anyone feeling scared (other than Costello). Even if the perpetrator was Zoroastrian or something, who is that threatening?
*an obviously rude and disrespectful act that nobody is condoning
There It Is.
The Double Standard.
I Mean...
I just thought I explained why it WASN'T a double standard, but YMMV
wrong, wrong, wrong
"Protected class" is a term-of-art or legal term meaning race, sex, sexual preference, religion etc. There are no boundaries as to which race, etc can be harmed, intimidated, discriminated against.
The Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendments demands that.
Might be a surprise to you, but members of majority communities are victims of hate crimes and discriminated against. The moral offense is the same.
Ironically, you are repeating the same misconception right-wingers do in order to agitate against civil rights laws.
So...
...what's the evidence in this case that the perpetrator acted with animus towards Catholics?
Did you read where I said there was no evidence of a hate crime?
Read up in the thread. smh
I'm not a lawyer
So I'll take your word for it that the term "protected class" is some kind of legalese that also covers the vast majority of the residents of New England who identify as Christians, which pretty much negates the literal meaning of the term.
Because it's highly unlikely someone damaging the majority's religious icons poses any kind of threat. If someone trashes a menorah, we can pretty safely infer it's an anti-semitic crime. There's literal nazis marching in the streets these days, have you read the papers?
wrong again
there is no "literal meaning." There's only the meaning, which is different than your mistaken one.
Again, this is the same mistaken meaning that right-wingers use to agitate against civil rights laws - implying white, males, Christians are not protected by civil rights laws.
In your case, you'd like it to be that way.
as for inferences - a few years ago a guy threw a rock and shattered a glass panel at the Holocaust Memorial.
Some people jumped to the conclusion that it was a hate crime, but no it was just another mentally ill guy in some chaos.
You're a fountain of assumptions, wrong legal opinions, and prejudices.
Sure
They are protected by civil rights laws, which will be a handy tool in the unimaginable future when white male Christians are the victims of hate crimes directed at white male Christians.
"Some People"
Yeah "some people" are so sensitive, right counselor? Again either intentionally or not, you elide the vast difference in context here. Let's take your smug simplification of the reaction at face value, why would "some people" jump to conclusions about someone vandalizing a holocaust memorial? Can you think of any reason? There are literal nazis parading in Boston and surrounding areas. Pray tell me who's threatening the lives of Christians right now?
Guilty until proven innocent
Am I right? That’s what this nation is built on.
Only if you're a minority
Didn't realize you were a black lives matter supporter, glad to have you aboard!
Nice edit of your original post
Full BLM supporter here. You?
Some history to ease your anxiety
There have been "literal Nazis" parading on the streets of Boston for a long long time. The Nazis haven't taken over in all those years.
George Lincoln Rockwell came to Boston and paraded with his Nazis back in the 1960s.
The Klan, Nazis, and the nazi Nationalist Movement had marches in the 1970s associated with busing.
Then there was the old anti-Semite Josef Mlot-Mroz, who showed up to almost every demonstration on the Common in the 60s and 70s with an anti-Semitic, anti-Communist placard. I remember anti-Vietnam war student protesters engaging him in mocking debate and heckling him. Today he'd probably be beaten up by some self-righteous kid in black.
Just some history for you, so you don't die of anxiety.
Seems to Me...
You've done a great job illustrating why jews should be "anxious" about anti-semitism. Lots of other great examples out there locally and nationally now, too, such as the leaders of the republican party regularly trafficking with fascists and white supremacists like Nick Fuentes.
To put it as diplomatically as possible, it takes a real lack of empathy to tell jews they're too "anxious" right now, or just about any time in recent history.
is Christianity a protected class?
hypotheticals aside, i would argue that it is not.
religion resembles some other protected classes like race or disability, but where it differs is that it isn't an immutable characteristic. people shift or even abandon their religious beliefs every day.
further, there is no inherent cultural overlap with Christianity in the way that there is with Judaism or Islam, for example.
yes, Christians are protected
The category is "religion." Members of religious communities are equally protected against hate crimes and discrimination.
respectfully
where this case is involved, your reading of the law strikes me as overly simplistic.
my point is that when it comes to Christianity in particular, the bar for proving a hate crime must be higher than commenters like John Costello are suggesting – compared to a similar crime against Jewish or Islamic symbology, for instance.
Not specifically
“Christianity” is not a protected class. “Religion” is.
Discrimination on the basis of religion is illegal. Doesn’t matter what the religion is, nor whether it’s a frequently persecuted minority or a dominant majority; you can’t discriminate on the basis of religion.
sure
i accept that. my point is that flattening the context around any of those protected classes will almost invariably lead to exploitation of the law. see: Hobby Lobby.
There is a light hearted sounding song about Jesus dancing
I remember hearing on the radio a song about Jesus dancing on the cross. The song alternated between melody that was light and easy going followed by a somber passage. It was an odd song. Looked for it online but can't find it.
This sounds like a drunken fellow who intoxication lowered his inhibitions with the result that he thought he could do gymnastics on some sculpture.
Certainly not a hate crime.
But I know that there are Catholic folks whose bloomers get all bunched up with accusations of Catholic bashing. Years ago I was explaining to some Jewish fellows what I was taught is the action of transubstantiation.
One of the fellows in the group, a Catholic Gay man. He yelled that he was sick and tired of Catholic bashing. It struck me that he is bluntly defending an institution that is on record as condemning him as "intrinsically disordered." In other words declaring that his sexuality is a mental disease.
I believe that this is why the separation church and state should be as separate the two sides of the Grand Canyon. The psychology of religious belief can lead to much good, but it also can lead to great evil.
The new Speaker of the House of Representatives is a solid example of religious belief leading to great evil.
It’s a miracle!
Jesus de Milo is armed again.
I think I saw use of duct tape as I rode by this afternoon.
Decided for myself this hate crimes talk is dumb
Boston Police officers and the Suffolk DA's office are not dumb. If they had suspicion of hateful intent, I have no doubt they would charge the suspect with it sooner or later. Anyone getting butt hurt around this topic is also being dumb around this.