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BRA approves $615-million replacement for the Hole
By adamg on Thu, 09/13/2012 - 8:16pm
The Boston Redevelopment Authority today approved the proposed Millennium Tower and Burnham Building project, which will feature a residential tower on Washington Street and a retail and office complex focused on what's left of the old Filene's building.
The project, led by the group that built the Ritz Carlton a few blocks down Washington Street, would include some 600 units of luxury apartments and a 550-space parking garage.
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Comments
Isn't it a little late in the
Isn't it a little late in the 2000s to be naming things after the millennium? It's starting to sound dated.
Duration
I believe that 'Millenium' is a reference to how long it took to get to this point.
HEY-OH!
HEY-OH!
Not as dated as the existing Millennium Towers
There's something about the rectangular granite blocks and glass facade that seems to radiate concentrated late '90s boring.
yay
yay just what we need.. more luxury apartments. The ones on Bromfeild aren't renting, and uh, they think they can build more?
I know I want to live in Downtown Crossing, where i can look at empty store fronts.. bums sleeping in closed store fronts... fun urban youth hanging out... maybe witness a stabbing or two... /sarcasm
CAN WE HAZ BOSTON?!
CAN WE HAZ BOSTON?!
We do need more luxury units,
We do need more luxury units, actually, for two very good reasons.
The first is that these units mean money for the city. Lots of money. There's direct revenue, in the form of real estate taxes. And that'll be substantial. And there's indirect revenue, in the form of all the goods and services that the residents of 600 overpriced condominiums will sprinkle about. That's good for businesses, and the city will take its cut, too. Add it up, and you're looking at a very nice infusion of revenue for a city that could really use it. (And since very few of these condos are going to be occupied by people who actually utilize much in the way of city-provided services - from caseworkers to schools - it's almost all going to be reallocated out to other neighborhoods.) And bear in mind, that it isn't pushing out a soup kitchen or a public housing project. Right now, it's just a giant hole in the ground.
The second is that housing prices in Boston remain much, much too high. Expand the supply, and soak up some of the demand from the extremely affluent. There's actually a very good housing stock in the city. We don't need more specifically-affordable units. We just need more units, generally.
isn't that
Didn't you mean "trickling" rather than "sprinkling", as in "trickle-down economics"? It works so well for Latin America, why not try it here, too?
"We don't need more specifically-affordable units"
I see your logic here. When developers make new supply, none of gets priced affordably if the government doesn't makes them do so. So the solution is to have no more specifically-affordable units, just develop even more *luxury* units, so the future super-rich tenants can "sprinkle" their cash around. You see, that gives us jobs!
Gee, thanks!
Every luxury condo built on
Every luxury condo built on that site is one less yuppie scumbag bidding up the rent on the apartment YOU want.
That's the danger
Had a chance to ask the head of the BRA my burning question the other day at a public meeting. We are building thousands of luxury units a year - where are all the people with that kind of money to buy/rent these things going to come from? Apparently the BRA has no answer to that because his response was a) people are investing billions of dollars on these projects, so we'll just trust them (because that worked out great for Vegas, Phoenix and Miami) or b) well, the prices/rents of these places will go down and with prices/rents so high that might not be such a bad thing - which is nice up until you figure out that if we do that the city probably can't afford all the payraises we've just promised our municipal unions.
God forbid interest rates ever go up or we are really screwed - at least Helicopter Ben delivered on a Hail Mary today.
The idea is
that by increasing the supply of units, period, the market will stabilize as the demand comes down. So the luxury units might be pricey, but some of the rich people might opt for a pricier unit in a luxury full-service building instead of a renovated brownstone without an elevator or parking. That will leave those apartments open for people who can't afford the luxury building.
nice idea
But it rarely works that way. Rents are very, very sticky; and it's questionable if they're really totally market driven.
Back in Aug asking prices went up $200-300/month because of a feedback loop between landlords and a Boston.com article on rents in the city. Every slum lord to the penthouses downtown seized on the news to raise asking prices.
$1400 for a South Boston 750 sq foot studio on F street, in a old triple decker. Really?
"I know I want to live in
"I know I want to live in Downtown Crossing, where i can look at empty store fronts.. bums sleeping in closed store fronts... fun urban youth hanging out... maybe witness a stabbing or two... /sarcasm"
The thing that intrigues me about Downtown Crossing area luxury apartments like this, say the ones on Province Street off of Bromfield, Kingston Street and general vicinity, is, how do the residents feel coming home late at night? Or even just looking out their windows? Have you ever seen that area late at night? While not necessarily specifically dangerous, is creepy and deserted and utterly inhospitable looking. Despite attempts by the so-called "Ladder District" to liven things up at night, it really isn't lively. At least the Archstone Appartments further down on Washington Street might get some life from the Boylston Street/Theater district side. Even so, despite the fact that the Combat Zone has been gone for years, the area where the posh Archstone sits is undeniably scuzzy.
Atleast they are including four bedroom apartments
I think it's good that they will be including some four bedroom apartments, those are lacking in the entire Boston proper area.
It'll take time, but the
It'll take time, but the neighborhood can't improve in the absence of people living there; vibrant neighborhoods require people to be out at all times, and this means having residents who want to do things locally outside of normal business hours. The more people that live down there, the more businesses will remain open later, the more restaurants will be open outside of weekday lunch hours, etc., which gets more people out and about, and you get a virtuous cycle. It's just rough for the pioneers.
Several thousand people already live downtown
Amazing but true. A few months ago, we were doing our mindless tuning out via HGTV and were amazed to see an episode of "Househunters" that featured a condo right across Washington Street from Macy's. So it's no longer a question of build it and they will come, because they've already come, but of providing the area the sorts of things that will make it a successful urban neighborhood - you know, like a supermarket and more late-night food options for the sort of people who WANT to live in a densely populated high-rise environment (as opposed to us HGTV tuner-outers in the hinterlands of Roslindale).
I know someone who lives on Province Street
in those luxury condos and she moved there never having lived in Boston. She took a job here and bought the place sight unseen thinking that it would be nice to live near Fanueil Hall, Beacon Hill and the Boston Common.
She has a baby and does not feel safe taking the baby out for a walk after dinner. She doesn't want to leave her place after dinner.
I don't know what she paid for her place but she might have been able to live in Beacon Hill or Back Bay for similar money.
Beacon Hill is a 10 minute
Beacon Hill is a 10 minute walk from there! Sheesh.
Her building is bounded on
Her building is bounded on two sides by the friggin freedom trail, with doormen from her building and various hotels standing outside at all hours, and is about 1000 feet or so from a huge police station. She doesn't feel safe walking there after dinner? Before sunset even? Sorry but the problem isn't with the neighborhood.....
Provice Street is an alley
Luxury condos or no, Province Street is essentially nothing but a dingy alley between Bromfield and School Streets, both of which are relatively deserted at night (Silvertone notwithstanding), DTX empties competely by 8 or so at the latest. The whole area is just desolate and creepy at night. I'm just not sure it could ever be a "neighborhood". I recall also Provonce Street being so desolate that skateboard kids had the run of the place with impunity.
When was the last time you
When was the last time you were there? Silvertones is not on Province, it's on Bromfield, and it's had a few new restaurants, including GEM open up there, and there's Hub Pub and the Marliave as well. And I most certainly wouldn't call Province Street 'dingy', nor an alley. It's a street the middle of a downtown area in one of America's oldest cities, it's got a huge luxury condo building on it, sits at the corner of School Street near Old City Hall, on which the Freedom Trail lies, on which thousands of tourists walk everyday, but does, like most downtown business areas, clear out at night. But if you're saying this is not a fit place to walk around after dinner, I must insist you return to your fortified bunker in North Adams. This is the kind of 'can't do' spirit that has made the renewal process so drawn out in the first place.
well now it will be less
well now it will be less deserted, won't it.
downtown crossing changing rapidly right noe, in exactly the way time square did in NYC twenty years ago
Oh Disney bought it?
Didn't the Walt Disney Company buy up most of Times Square about 20 years ago?
A deserted neighborhood is
A deserted neighborhood is great for getting some sleep.
I know I want to live in
You sound like the blue-haired old ladies looking at the short skirts and tight dresses in the department store. These units will not be marketed to you. No one asked you to live in Downtown crossing - the developer won't miss your business. And you couldn't afford to live there in any case. If you are not the intended customer, your opinion doesn't matter. These people are betting with their own money that they can sell the units. When is the last time you put up your own money to build housing in Boston?
You're not even close
I *AM* their market.
early 30s, tons disposable income to waste on over priced condos.
I'm sorry but my sarcastic remark is somewhat true. I'm sorry if I am buying a 'luxury' condo, its not going to be in DTXing.
Its called they are doing this because they can. Remember, developers get huge tax write offs for this stuff. For every unit that sits empty, they take a loss over it, which at the end of the year is a business loss on their taxes.
Developers know if these are 'affordable' units, they will rent quickly, and they lose tax breaks. So why build affordable housing when they can let buildings sit empty and take a business loss on it and get the tax credit.
I'd rather see something along the lines of what Vornado wanted. Mixed use. Residential, Retail, Hotel, and Office. Not almost ALL condos OR Retail. A Mix.
Wish I had the 20 seconds of my life back
All these big companies they write off everything!
You don't even know what a write-off is.
Do you?
No I don't.
But they do. And they're the ones writing it off.
I'm well aware of what a
I'm well aware of what a business loss is, I deal with this crap on a daily basis.
Keep your shirt on Francis
You deal with that crap everyday, but apparently not so, Seinfeld quotes.
Long live the hole! (It will
Long live the hole! (It will be strange to see it filled in)
Any guesses on who wins the.
Any guesses on who wins the. Construction bid? Somethin smells fishy...
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about? This is a private project and the developer can hire whoever they want to do the construction.
Where have you been living?
"This is a private project and the developer can hire whoever they want to do the construction."
Not in Boston. If you want approval you promise the mayor to use a certain contractor, who then kicks that money back to the mayor in "campaign donations" and patronage.
You're already a classic 'Cowadardly Anon' - just spill it!
Who is the "certain contractor" to whom you are referring? If you think there's real collusion going on (and I'm not so naive as to believe its not possible) - then please spell it out now so more people will be ready to call foul if it turns out you're right.
step in it
I'm not the anon who brought it up, and I have no clue who will be the contractor on this job (so stick a sock in it, right?) but it seems to me that Suffolk Construction is obviously the Mayor's contractor. Mr. Fish does a lot of charitable work in Boston (e.g., Boston Boys and Girls Club) and everyone who works for him (above a certain level) gives the maximum to the Mayor's campaign fund. This isn't exactly Deep Throat material here. There may even be handouts down at 1010 Mass Ave explaining the process by now.
Welcome to Boston. Now get the fuck out. I've got some whinging to do.
unions
I've always wondered about this since there seem to be a handful of contractors that get the big government projects (in addition to Suffolk, SullyMac seems to get all the electrical work, for instance). However, I think there are other things going on besides just campaign contributions - these companies may have the union connections and the size and scale to work with regulations and bureaucracy. The union thing in particular is a big deal. Nobody in their right mind would pay $110 an hour to have an IBEW 103 electrician run ethernet cable but the city is happy to do it.
Take care of small businesses that are all around this project.
This is a good project for the neighborhood and when it is done there is no doubt that it will be an improvement. However, what the BID people and the BRA conveniently ignore is how long it will take and what the impact on local business will be as they build it. As of right now there is no plan to move any of the businesses that surround this hole in the ground. Are they just going to kick them all out after they have been there for 20+ years? Maybe they should spend some of the millions of dollars of BID money on refurbishing the street vending program.
The city needs to make sure all the vendors are relocated across the street and remain open while this project takes place. Everywhere there is no vending you have homeless, drug deals, garbage and so on. Some sort of festive atmosphere needs to remain so people continue to shop there. Macy's just doesn't cut it all alone..
The small businesses need to be taken care of and the area needs to remain open for business while this 3 - 5 years project goes on.
Otherwise there will be many more empty stores when it's done.
Why would you need to move surrounding businesses?
it should be possible to build this without closing or relocating any business located across the street from it. The only business I can think of that's *on* the Filene's property is one of Lambert's food stands, and they've got a storefront a block away.
I have to agree with Cappy
The construction at Filene's and the economic downturn took out a bunch of the chain stores in the area. The former Barnes and Noble is now "the doorway where homeless people sleep." The former music store (don't remember which) is now The Place Where People Panhandle. And that block between Macy's and Filene's is where The Annoying Clipboard People Harass You For Fake Charities.
I like Downtown Crossing, but it just doesn't feel safe.
Come on!. It's got a few
Come on!. It's got a few gaps, and I'm sure it's been a bit of a nightmare for BRA planners, but it's not *that* terrible. Now if in a few years' time you greet the arrival of the XXX movie theatre and the check casher's and the liquor store with the grated plexiglass barrier, you may have a point.
XXX Movie Theater?
Didn't those go the way of dinosaurs and phone booths and paying cash for purchases?
The Annoying Clipboard People Harass You For Fake Charities.
That happens everywhere -- Davis Square, Harvard Square, Centre Street in Jamaica Plain, and likely many other places around town. I hate having to run the gauntlet of clipboard-holding canvassers from Greenpeace or Children International or whatever today's flavor is.
Known as 'chuggers' - charity
Known as 'chuggers' - charity muggers - in the UK.
Funny...I was thinking of something similar..
that rhymes with chuggers, as what people in the UK might call them.
I just got accosted by a young man with a Planned Parenthood
clipboard in Dewey Square. I really hope that area doesn't become a haven for solicitation.
Speaking of fake charities, whatever happened to MassPIRG?
Please note: I am not saying Planned Parenthood is a fake charity. I'm just saying that a Vietnamese sandwich is more important than free birth control pills when it's noon and I skipped breakfast that day.
MASSPIRG
They're still on Winter Street. Heavily involved in the recent bottle bill debates. A lot of work on trash, tax breaks and banking...seems like an appropriate combo. I don't know if they've dialed back the "chuggers" recently, but now that it's been mentioned, I realize that I haven't seen them around as much. I have found that having ear buds in, even if you're not listening to anything is a good avoidance technique.
roger that re earbuds..
....and/or pretending to talk on the phone. A "don't f--- with me" scowl on the face as you walk by works wonders as well.
They're extra annoying at MGH
Seriously, do they really think most people walking around there are in the mood to be accosted?
Clipboard Clowns
There is one of those clipboard clowns, usually at Downtown Crossing or on Tremont Street, who has a guitar in a canvas case slung across his back for the entire of his shift, as he accosts people for donations. This is the ultimate in pretentiousness. Like he's some kind of "artist" or something and cannot be seperated from his instrument. Or maybe it's a come on to attract attention. Very low class. These clipboard teenybop fundraisers give bike messengers a run for their money in the bizzarro department. Pure pretentiousness.
To Cappy - all those
To Cappy - all those businesses directly across from the Hole on Washington Street have been gone for a while....what 'local businesses' are left to re-locate? The AT&T store? CVS? And why do they need to relocate anyway? The only 'local business' I could see being affected would be Lamberts fruit stand, and they have a shop on Tremont anyway. And to anon - the Barnes and Noble moved out long before they scrapped the old Filene's building - Borders and Strawberries closed for the same reasons hundreds of other book and record stores closed, not because of any construction (or 'deconstruction').
Vendors ARE small businesses
Finn, you and Ron should take another look. There's about 20 small rent paying businesses around that building that have been there for 20 plus years that need to be relocated. Lambert is one of them.
Finn and Ron. That building
Finn and Ron. That building is surrounded by vendors, you know... Small Business Owners? They've been there working their butts off, paying rent, supporting the BID, and the Mayor. They employ people, they pay taxes and they should be kept open while this building gets built. Maybe the BID should take some of that 3 million they collect from property owners and invest in new kiosks. It could be a showplace out there. In 10 yrs. When we have our new skyscraper then we can look at what should be outside around the building.
I don't doubt that there are
I don't doubt that there are small businesses around the site, I just want to know specifically which ones your referring to that need re-locating...and again, why do they need re-locating? Are you talking about push-carts? Businesses on Bromfield? Why would they need to close?
Thick as a brick
Yes Finn. The Vendors referenced above. Some are pushcarts some aren't but they all can't stay when a scaffolding goes up.
Ok, we're making progress
Ok, we're making progress apart from the insults. I understand that push-carts are vendors. Let me try again, at the risk of sounding thicker...aside from the push carts, (which, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe can be pushed away from the site) what other non-pushcart 'vendors' need to be be moved? I'm just asking for the names of some storefronts here!
It could be a showplace? Yeah
It could be a showplace? Yeah - no one ever thought of that.
Showplace?
Thinking of it and putting real money into it are very different things.
They are paying some consultant 250K to come up with a plan for the vending program though. Whomever he or she is no one knows and by all accounts they haven't spoken to anyone involved in the marketplace.
Can someone define luxury for me?
per sq foot?
1K per sq foot? 1.5K per sq foot?
Luxury can mean two things
Luxury is just a word people throw around when they mean expensive. Well, usually the two are interchangeable in life, right?
When it comes to residential real estate, luxury can mean the building is "full-service", with a concierge, doorman, media room, library, fitness center, etc.
"Luxury" buildings like the Ritz Carlton have had sales during the past 12-months in the $800-$1,200 per square foot basis. The Clarendon, brand-new, runs $1,200-$1,500 per square foot.
The developer of the new Filene's tower hasn't specified a price range, as far as I know, but my assumption would be in the same price range as the Clarendon. You might see several units go for $1,500-$2,000, but those would be trophy properties. The Clarendon has three "penthouse" units priced from $6.75-$8 million, each with ~3,500 square feet. So, from $1,928-$2,285 per square foot.
During the past six months in Boston, there have been 2,744 condominium sales. I don't have the median price per square foot for all of these, but of the 2,744, there were 73 condos sold with a price per square foot greater than $1,000, the most-expensive being 100 Beacon Street, $9M for ~4,083-square feet, or $2,204 per square foot. Mr. Brady's 5,311-square foot home at 310 Beacon Street sold for $9.2 million, or $1732 per square foot.
The Clarendon
What's the occupancy of The Clarendon? I walk by there regularly at night and most of the windows are dark. I'd be surprised if even 40% of units have someone in them. Unless they've all been sold to absentee owners it doesn't bode well for the Downtown Crossing development that a similarly expensive development in a more thriving 24-hour area (Back Bay/South End) is still largely empty years (3?) after completion.
The Clarendon is 90%+ sold out
The Clarendon is more than 90% sold out. It took three years, but they ended up selling almost all of them. The Registry of Deeds has the details so I'm not making stuff up.
Now, the W and 45 Province, those are a different story. The W might be at 60%, but 45 Province is still around 50%, if memory serves. 45 Province has more units (138?) versus W and Clarendon, but obviously, 45 Province had a bigger marketing challenge.
DTX is down, but I'm not counting it out, even though I complain about it all the time!
Those are not reassuring numbers
Thanks for the info John
So of the only existing new downtown luxury condos it will take 4 years to sell some 400 units - less than 10 a month? I know some of these are supposed to be rentals- so let's double that and this building alone is a 2-3 year supply of luxury units in a city that's planning to build 1200 luxury units a year as far as the eye can see.
I'd say some time around 2015 just when these are ready to hit the market this gets very interesting - especially as that's when interest rates are supposed to be going back to "normal". Forget DTX - these could be hard on the waterfront and we'd be plum out of people who can afford to buy these things.
fortunately for the developers (and hopefully) they permitted this thing so big it would be hard for them to lose money on it unless things get REALLY bad.
You have to wonder what all these developers are thinking - although the head of the BRA in his talk had an interesting comment - developers are very optimistic people - about their own projects. They always think it's the other guy that's going down.
luxury bubble
Also wondering when it's going to pop. Cheap interest rates are one factor, but this is a college city through and through. What happens when Jane and Johnny can no longer take out the $14K extra on top of tuition to pay for their off campus "luxury" slum?
The era of cheap credit is still very much alive in Boston, propped up by foreign investment, retirees, and students.
It just means;;;
...stainless steel appliances and granite countertops. Throw those in a studio in Chelsea and you can call it "luxury."
Miami and Vancouver
are full of highrise condos designed for foreign 'investors'. Why can't Boston get it's cut?
Ron Newman....
First of all. The Lamberts at Filenes and the Lamberts store on Tremont are owned by two different people.
Also, have you actually walked around Downtown Crossing? Abutting the Filenes building is quite a few small businesses. There is Boston Red Dog, Arepas, the slush/peanut lady, The Cambodia lady selling scarves and Cambodian imports, the baseball hat guy, the dress cart, the luggage, backpack guy, sunglasses, and like 6 more in Shoppers park. You must be blind to miss them.
They are all business owners who pay rent and who will be kicked out. They could easily be relocated across the street. At least while the construction is going on.
"First of all. The Lamberts
"First of all. The Lamberts at Filenes and the Lamberts store on Tremont are owned by two different people."
That would account for the often drastic difference in the price of produce at the Filene's stand and the produce in the Tremont store.
No that would account for the
No that would account for the huge expensive high rent operation on Tremont Street. High overhead higher cost.
A 625-foot tower and 550-car
A 625-foot tower and 550-car garage? That'll make for some human-scaled street life.
I think I'll make a map showing the parts of Boston I like to walk around, the parts of Boston with buildings over 10 stories, and the total lack of overlap of the two areas.
Biggest issue
is the lack of ground Retail and Restaurants. A lot of the historic sky rises have nice flush castle walls, one entrance to a grand lobby, and no shops.
Some were so bad they have sinse converted their lobbies into indoor mini-malls. 101 Federal street comes to mind.
Seems like these guys are planning on keeping the ground floor(s) for multi-use, which is good. Unlike the new Liberty Mutual building going in over in the SE, where Menino allowed them to get away from the ground level zoning...
It's not just ground-level
It's not just ground-level retail. Comm Ave in the Back Bay has no retail, but it's still one of the nicest parts of the city to walk in.
Don't wanna live in that building
The way things are being put together these days, that thing will be coming down during the next big hurricane.
And I'm old enough to remember actual big hurricanes (and dodging falling mirrored windows on the sidewalk when it wasn't even windy. And that was the 70s).