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Looks like Hubway needs to remind its riders to stay off the turnpike
By adamg on Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:26pm
Around 9 p.m., both Intestinal Fortitude and Swarthy reported a woman riding a Hubway bike on I-90 eastbound just past the Allston/Cambridge tolls.
In a possibly unrelated incident, about 45 minutes later, State Police reported a pedestrian was hit by a car on I-93 south by Columbia Road.
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Comments
Was she trespassing?
If stupid people getting hit by trains are called trespassers and thus at fault, are cyclists riding where they don't belong (restricted, divided highways) also considered trespassers?
If they're trespassing, then they're trespassers
Being on private property like a railway right of way without the consent of the owner: Trespassing.
Being on public property like a restricted highway, but on a bicycle: Not trespassing, but in violation of the law.
Of course, you knew that already before you asked the question, so my assumption is that you were just being a dick.
So, MBTA is private property?
Is a bus stop maintained by the MBTA public or private? Is a green line subway or surface platform along Comm Ave public or private? Am I trespassing walking on the tracks, but not riding above them (airspace) ? Or are these areas just restricted, like a highway for cyclists, dick?
Answers
Criminal Trespass
If it's posted or restricted, it's private. Sidewalk bus stops are not posted or restricted, neither are surface trolley stops. Anyone can just walk on up to them, whether they're using the T or not. MBTA rail line right of ways are posted, restricted, and private.
Hope that helps.
Negligence per se
The issue of whether she is actually a trespasser or not (and, I am not so sure she isn't, she very well might be, as each entrance to a limited access highway is clearly marked no horses, pedestrians, bicycles, etc. -public ownership is not dispositive of the question) is irrelevant w/r/t fault if she got hit by a motorist because in either case, the motorist would almost certainly face no legal liability (again, barring some kind of gross negligence or intent on the part of the driver).
I don't know if it is called trespassing
I do know that the Pike is restricted and prohibits horses, cyclists, pedestrians (except in emergency situations), etc. and this is explicitly signed at various locations.
So, as a matter of state law, she was not legally there - I don't know if it is trespassing or not.
BTW, the Pike and freeways are built for cars - can't they just all go drive over there ;-)
Any the city was
built for bikes. No! Maybe you could stay off our streets all together.
You know what?
The city was not built for cars.
The roads are paved because cyclists organized to get paving done.
Sorry if bikes scare your horses when they are pulling your wagon.
"The roads are paved because cyclists organized to get paving
done". Are you really that delusional?
Nope
Just that aware of history.
Start educating yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Roads_Movement
You
Should probably read the entire article you linked.
Pick and Choose. Pick and Choose.
"At the turn of the twentieth century, interest in the bicycle began to wane in the face of increasing interest in automobiles. Other groups took the lead in the road lobby. As the automobile was developed and gained momentum, organizations developed such cross-county projects as the coast-to-coast east–west Lincoln Highway 1913, headed by auto parts and auto racing magnate Carl G. Fisher, and later his north–south Dixie Highway 1915, which extended from Canada to Miami, Florida."
So let us just say "thank you" to both the bicyclists as well as the auto enthusiasts.
So the say that "The city was not built for cars" as well as "the roads are paved because cyclists organized to get paving done." is a bit, well, simplistic.
Simplistic, yet fundamentally accurate
The first people to organize in the US for good paved roads were bicyclists.
And Boston was built long before the automobile was invented.
These simple historical facts are an important antidote to the worldview of folks who grew up drooling on the shag in the wayback of their mom's station wagon and think nothing existed before the automobile because that's all they, personally, have ever known. It would be foolish to assert that roads were all paved only for bicycles, or that no part of Boston was build after automobiles became common, but nobody has done that here.
It is important to understand that (with a handful of exceptions) the roads in Boston were not made just for cars, and did not exist in a cars-only state before bikes came around. Bikes were here on the roads before cars were and will still be here when cars go away.
Nice slogan but totally
Nice slogan but totally irrelevant to public policy..... It's like saying that Boston Harbor was developed for sailing vessels so why allow container traffic..No one owned a car in the 1880's so how could the roads be built for them..... airports weren't developed for jet planes either.
BTW sidewalks were not built for bicycles.
This thread is about Hubway bicyclists that ride the Mass tpke
This thread is referring to the Hubway bicyclists (or any bicyclists, for that matter), who are stupid enough to ride their bicycles on the Mass Tpke (or any highway like it, for that matter!) Riding a bicycle on the Mass Tpke, Rte 2, or any other similar highway is just plain suicide, imho. Only a blithering idiot would ride a bicycle on these highways.
You think this is a common problem?
Sounds like only one person made this mistake.
Don't worry Miki - it isn't a trend.
It doesn't have to be a trend to be stupid, SwirlyGrrl.
Therefore, I stand by my position that, no matter how rare that riding a bicycle on the Mass. Pike or any other highway like it is, anybody who does it is still an idiot. One person, imho, is too many. S/he's lucky she didn't get killed, or end up getting a driver killed.
I've biked on (short sections) of Route 2
I don't necessarily recommend this, and I probably wouldn't do it again, but I recall biking on the Route 2 shoulder on at least two occasions:
- eastbound, from the Lake Street (Arlington) on-ramp to the Alewife Station off-ramp. Either the Acorn Park driveway didn't yet exist, or I didn't realize that it was there and was a much more pleasant and safe way to make this trip.
- from Old County Road in Lincoln, over Route 128, to the next off-ramp (Concord Ave, Smith Street, Spring Street) in Waltham or Lexington. Or vice versa. There's a cross-over on Route 2 at the end of Old County Road, allowing left turns onto or off Route 2. People use it (or at least did, when I last was in the area) to reach a farm stand by the side of the highway.
The Route 2 shoulder between
The Route 2 shoulder between Lake Street and the Alewife T exit has been restriped into a third travel lane. I'd say it's a net gain, unless you're merging from the Lake Street onramp. http://goo.gl/maps/PRnAi (Also, the former Faces nightclub site is now a construction site for a massive new residential building.)
You'd have to be totally nuts to use the median break at Old County Road. It's not even up to standards for emergency vehicles. http://goo.gl/maps/OYIvp
As someone who grew up in Lincoln, MA,
I remember Route 2 before they even widened it, back in the early 1960's, and it was dangerous for bicyclists back then, too. A kid from Lincoln (my old hometown) got killed while bicycling on that route.
Smartypants
why aren't there bike lanes on the Mass Pike? Afraid the bikes might have to pay a toll? God forbid.
SYNTAX ERROR
But if I parse your convoluted post correctly, the only reason the roads were paved in the first place - replacing dirt, mud, and cobbles - was for bicycles.
Waiting for Matthew
To talk about how the Interstates need to be taken back by cyclists and pedestrians too.
You can wait forever
Interstate and limited access highways are not city streets. By law, they are not accessible to pedestrians and cyclists.
On the same token, city streets are not limited access highways. City streets are public open space and are, by law and longstanding common tradition, open to all.
I have always said that limited access highways are the place for cars to go fast.
I have objected, and will always object, when assholes try to treat our city streets like limited access highways.
The more incompetent transportation renters
Zipcar drivers vs. Hubway cyclists.
Who ya got?
Great Question!
Zipcars do get mentioned in some news events like getting stuck on the green line tracks, or Boston state reps driving to Arlington to kidnap a woman. I think Zipcars win.
I stay clear
Of zip cars and "The Ride". They've surpassed taxis as the vehicles on the road most likely to end my existence in earth.
"Stupid"
"Stupid"people or someone in need of help? Most trespassers or shortcut takers don't get hit by trains and have no intent on hurting themselves. I tend to side with women in most domestic situations but I don't think that Boston state rep set out to"kidnap" the young lady from Arlington. Guess you can't avoid the court of public opinion.
Weighted by mayhem potential?
Zipcar. Hands down. Hubways are ponderously slow and stable, zipcars are motor vehicles.
The worst hubway accident to date? Van ran one down when the driver blew through a red light.
Ponderously Slow, Not So Stable
I tried a Hubway bike once for five minutes. That was all i could stand of it before I needed to go back to my beautiful Bianchi.
Slow:
The gearing is all wrong. You know when you see a clear bicycle n00b because they're pedaling a million miles an hour but only going at a walking pace because they are in the wrong gear. Well with Hubway bikes you have no choice. The top gear has got the worst ratio for maintaining forward momentum I have ever seen. I suppose that is a deliberate design choice to keep speeds down, but it means riding a Hubway bicycle, where you're already wastefully carting around an extra 20 pounds of bicycle not needed, you really are at a disadvantage using them.
Not Stable:
The seating position and handlebars are designed for comfort riding. But they make steering, either by leaning or turning the handlebars, very dangerous. Not unlike a chopper motorcycle with the extended bars. You have absolutely no lateral control over the bicycle, which is already hard to maneuver stably due to it's excessive weight. Bicycle handlebars should never curve back towards the rider. They should always be straight across or curving forwards. They should be sized so that ones arms are going straight forwards from the shoulder as any angle there (be the bars too short or wide) results in stability problems. Wide handlebars also make you in danger of clipping and getting clipped by car's side mirrors. The seat and handlebar arrangement of the bicycles also cause severe issues to the knee and ankle joints when riding.
I'm not saying you need to ride around the city on a road bike with your ass above your head for streamlining, but the Hubway bikes are clearly the other extreme end of the scale, to the point where they are both ponderous and dangerous to use.
Yeah--let's just give everyone a Bianchi.
Honestly--you have some extremely limited ideas about bicycle use and design. Your personal preferences when it comes to bicycles has little to with the requirements of a bike-share bike. And correct me if I'm wrong, but from your previous posts about lighting, etc, you're not the one I'd take safety tips from.
If they are so dangerous to use ...
Then where are the accidents?
I hear you about the downside, especially after 200 miles in the past week on my motobecane gigi (I had the Eros rebuilt for the elderspawn), but there isn't any evidence of them being unsafe. The ergonomic stuff matters far less when you are talking 1-3 mile trips at most, anyway. Giant, heavy, slow, and tedious, yes. Unsafe, no.
Different bikes for different purposes
Kind of a narrow-minded view of bicycles you have. When you say things like:
your myopic view of bicycles really shines.
There are a million different kinds of bikes with a million different purposes, ranging from all-out race bikes to utilitarian cargo bikes and everything in between. I'm sorry the Hubway bikes don't suit your fancy, but they are just fine for their intended purpose.
Hubway bikes are intended for short-hop trips less than a half-hour with people wearing their street clothes. Riders aren't going to work hard to go fast, they just want to cruise along and get from point A to point B. They are comfort bikes that are appealing to the most novice of riders and achieve their purpose in a cheap, efficient manner. Are they perfect? No, no bike is perfect, they all make concessions. But for the intended purpose, the Hubway bikes are fine. I wouldn't take one on a hilly century ride or on D2R2, but for short, city trips, they fulfill their purpose.
This opinion is brought to you by a guy with a fair amount of money invested in a number of bikes, but also loves riding a singlespeed beach cruiser with balloon tires and swept back handlebars.
Was she following a GPS?
Was she following a GPS?
Google maps
Still in Beta for cycling directions.
EZ Pass?
I'm trying, and failing, to see how someone could accidentally get on the Mass Pike while riding a bicycle. I am assuming that if this woman was a Hubway member that she had some familiarity with the city, so what was she thinking?
I'm guessing that she was
I'm guessing that she was riding on the sidewalk on the east side of Cambridge St. from Cambridge towards Allston and just stayed on it until she got to the toll booth, unaware that she'd left Cambridge St. Since it's an off-ramp, there probably aren't any signs noting that it's a highway or that bicycles are prohibited that she would see. The sidewalk ends just past the toll booth, so I assume that's where she got on the Pike itself (probably in confusion about where to go) and was noticed.
From eastbound Cambridge
From eastbound Cambridge Street (which would be from Allston to Cambridge), the Pike entrance certainly is dangerous for bicycles and pedestrians. But it's by no means secret that it's a highway entrance. http://goo.gl/maps/Q6qKv
Yeah, that's why I suggested
Yeah, that's why I suggested coming from Cambridge to Allston ("east side" referring to the side of the street the sidewalk in question is on, and not to the direction of travel).
The equivalent link
Both the off-ramp and the overpass curve to the left as you approach, so if you're riding on the sidewalk and unfamiliar with the road system there's no signs to set you right.
Looks like the off-ramp doubles as the exit from parking lots
from the Doubletree hotel, Houghton Chemical, and the CSX rail yard. This explains the presence of a sidewalk.
However, following the sidewalk would not take you onto the Pike. You'd end up instead in the rail yard or back on Soldiers Field Road in front of the Doubletree.
Surely the cyclist must have noticed that s/he was now going the wrong way against several lanes of fast-moving car traffic?
The sidewalk also goes along
The sidewalk also goes along the off-ramp all the way to the toll booths, I assume to provide access to the toll booth staffers.
And that part of Cambridge St is also several lanes of just-as-fast-moving car traffic.
My hypothesis was just in response to the person up-thread - I used to live in the area and go past there every day and it was the most reasonable explanation I could come up with for how someone would end up on the Pike, without having our cyclist make their way past giant signs saying "Interstate".
She couldn't just mosey along
She couldn't just mosey along the sidewalk and end up at the toll booths. She'd have to cross here, from the hydrant to the island with the rusty fence: http://goo.gl/maps/7RNO2
And continue along what's obviously a highway ramp.
Anyway, the original Twitter post mentioned someone on the Pike eastbound after the toll, not on a sidewalk next to a Pike ramp.
I know someone who accidentally biked onto Soldiers Field Rd
soon after she moved to this area. The printed map she was using did not clearly show that Soldiers Field Road/Storrow Drive was essentially a freeway (the road names certainly gave no clue), and she did not realize that a bike path ran parallel to this road along the river.
There are no signs banning or discouraging bicycles from Soldiers Field Road/Storrow Drive, even though state law would allow such signs to be posted.
I think she turned left from the Larz Anderson Bridge onto the Soldiers Field Road on-ramp and headed south/east towards BU.
She only made this mistake once!
About three weeks ago on a
About three weeks ago on a beautiful Sunday, I saw not one, but TWO spandex clad bikers cruising down SFR just past N Harvard St. One was going inbound, the other outbound. I could not believe what I was seeing as I cruised by in my car. I bike almost everywhere, but theres no way I'm getting onto Storrow/SFR unless its the 4th of July.
Cyclists got DCR to remove no bicycles signs
Yup, on 40' wide, 4 lane parkways with high volumes of fast moving traffic, cyclists objected to DCR posting them as no bicycles in order to protect lives. Its legal to ride there, so DCR complied and removed the signs. Cyclists doing this seem more interesting in asserting rights than safety.
Did She Pay The Toll When Entering The Turnpike?
.
People riding bikes
pay for nothing, yet it costs the taxpayers of the City hundreds of thousands of dollars to paint the streets with stripes and a bike logo.
Fallacy
People riding bicycles pay income taxes, property taxes [directly or indirectly via rentals], sales taxes, etc. etc.. All of those taxes fund road building and maintenance in a far greater percentage than the gas tax has ever covered. Then there are countless riders who also own a car anyhow. And what about people buying gas for generators, chainsaws, boats, ATVs, snowmobiles, T-72 tanks, and lawnmowers. Should they have to pay for a road their machine does not use?
How much wear and tear on the road does a bicycle cause? None. Cars, and especially trucks, create potholes and cracks to appear in the pavement by their sheer weight. Even when environmental factors, such as cold or water, contribute to road wear it is cars and trucks that exasperate those issues by expanding the original failure. Then there are costs associated with chemical pollution - you're almost better off smoking cigars than spending time at a gas station - yay Benzene - noise pollution, and crowding [cars and trucks take up more room].
You can wave your hands like a woo woo as much as you want, the numbers do not favor motor vehicles.
The roads belong to everyone, because everyone pays for them.
Hubway also needs to
remind the drivers of their sprinter vans with HUBWAY in huge letters emblazoned across the sides to stop driving so recklessly around the streets of Boston..
Video? Accident and Case Reports?
Please share your evidence base with us. I'd be interested to know where this is coming from.In other words, do you have anything objective to support this claim?
Or is this like the "somebody is going to get hurt on those things" meme about hubway bikes that isn't borne out by data. An "I don't like these things therefore it must be dangerous" versus actual multi-year usage statistics?
How do you
have the audacity to demand proof, case studies and citations from others, while making such absurd comments yourself?
Okay
Please ask me for evidence. I will provide (unless it is a matter of overwhelming evidence, and then I'll be happy to give you google search terms).
Looks like Sock Puppet has already provided at least a citation for roads being paved due to cyclists organizing. Not sure if you are the same know-nothing anon who was clueless about that, though.
Bicyclists driving the vans?
Are bicyclists driving the vans on sidewalks, running red lights, and going the wrong way on one way streets?!
Or is it the HubWay vans just go much faster than HubWay bicycles?
all vehicle renters
the thing about Hubway, Zipcar, Ryder and Uhauls is that the operators are not doing this every day. the scaryist are Rental Trucks because they can do the most damage. So it doesn't surprize me much when I see them doing something crazy
Excellent point
HubWay riders don't hit low clearance bridges!