When the Mattapan Line wasn't the only place to catch an orange trolley

By adamg on Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:00am

Yes, it's orange-trolley day here on UHub. The folks at the Boston City Archives wonder if you can place this photo. See it larger.

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Northeastern University stop

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:14am

Northeastern University stop sometime 1958-1959 before the old opera house/warehouse was torn down to build dorms.

[img]https://elmercatdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/09...
[sup]Is the conductor yelling at the photographer for taking pictures on the Ⓣ ?[/sup]
Believe it or not, but people hadn't yet figured out how to use simple carry bags; let alone backpacks; for carrying all the textbooks, notebooks, and other stuff needed for school each day! Only people like lawyers or nuns had briefcases.

The parochial school girls

By kvn
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 2:04pm

The parochial school girls had a green book bag, and guys used a brown duffle bags. Both were one sided opening , and had draw-straps or drawstrings.Seeing as this being a college trolley stop, maybe the girl wanted to cut the strap tying her to high school, and wanted to put on the airs of a college co- ed.

Huntington Ave.

By SwirlyGrrl
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:16am

Car is labeled "Park St. Subway" and "Northeastern".

1955 or so, given cars parked in photo.

Where, exactly? Perhaps where Northeastern now has that playing field thing?

I was going to guess Comm.

By Dave
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:41am

I was going to guess Comm. Ave....
Then I saw "Northeastern", so maybe something along the current Arborway or Tremont?

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thum...

Weren't all the streetcars orange until sometime in the mid-60s? (edit: Google says 'no'.)

It may be my imagination

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 12:14pm

It may be my imagination, but I seem to recall when I was attending Boston Latin in the very early 70s, some of the trolleys up and down Huntington Ave. were still orange. Those were the days of the old Arborway "E" line as well.

You remember correctly

By adamg
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 12:16pm

The infamous Boeing-Vertol trolleys didn't replace all the old PCC trolleys.

They didn't start repainting

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 12:41pm

They didn't start repainting the PCC cars green until 1971, and some of them ran in the orange paint on the Green Line as late as 1984. The PCCs now at Mattapan were repainted in the original orange colors back in 1999-2003 as they were rebuilt, they ran in green colors at Mattapan before that. In the late 1970s, there was a brief period when the PCCs assigned to Mattapan were painted red.

When streetcar service still went to Arborway

By roadman
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 7:19pm

in the 1970s and early to mid 1980s, it was MBTA policy to not run the Boeing-Vertol LRVs past Brigham Circle and onto the "in-street" section of the line The official reason for this was because of the design of the electrical equipment in the cars, and the potential for everyone involved in a crash to suffer a serious electrical shock should a car or truck hit the LRV and damage it.

Actually the wire service

By dmk
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 10:06pm

Actually the wire service was the problem. The Boeings used a pantograph same as today. A flat bar-type pick up for the electricity. The wires needed to be rebuilt in a way to accommodate both the pantograph (Boeings) and the older PCC (carbon pick-up - or trolley - hence the name). It was an expensive project to do the system to accommodate both.

The T opted to not rebuild the wire service beyond Brigham, and later beyond Heath. By then Forest Hills was being rebuilt for the Orange Line relocation into the present-day trench from an elevated steel structure, and the Arborway yard and the Forest Hills platform would be completely rebuilt, so they delayed with the idea in mind that would come in a later phase. Instead they pulled the service completely.

Boeings did run to Forest Hills on test runs but only using a special set of cars that had been modified to have a trolley pole. Only one set was modified for these tests.

The wire was modified for

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:08pm

The wire was modified for pantograph use between Brigham Circle and Heath St, by September 1984, They began operating Boeings as far as Heath in the rush-hour at that time while PCCs still provided base service all the way to Arborway. The line closed for reconstruction in December 1985. Service with Boeings and brand new Type 7s resumed as far as Brigham Circle in July 1986 and resumed to Heath St. in November 1989. Service was never restored beyond Heath St. and PCCs never ran again on the Green Line after December 1985 (but continue to run at Mattapan). By the time service resumed to Heath St., Type 7s were providing the backbone of Green Line service with Boeings supplementing in the rush-hours. Boeings were rarely seen on the Huntington Ave. line after 1987 or so because there is no maintenance facility along the E line, the cars have to be shifted back and forth to Reservoir or Riverside carhouses for repair work. The Type 7s were much more reliable cars than the Boeings, so they avoided using the unreliable Boeings on a line that did not have its own maintenance yard.

Three of the Boeing LRVs were

By roadman
Tue, 09/16/2014 - 1:35pm

outfitted with trolley poles for prototype testing prior to acceptance of the full order. 3400, 3401, and 3402. 3400 and 3402 retained the poles even after the wire was converted for pantograph use. IIRC, 3401 was wrecked while on loan to the Shaker Heights system in Cleveland for testing there.

For those out here in UHub land who may not be aware, the Boeing LRV was a Federal Government attempt to create an 'universal' streetcar design akin to the PCC (PCC actually stands for Presidental Conference Committee - the group that developed the basic design). However, most of the final Boeing design features were dictated by the T, because they had the most restrictions (height, curvature, etc.) within their system. San Francisco's MUNI was the only other streetcar system that bought Boeing LRVs - and MUNI bought a number of cars intended for Boston when we cancelled the remainder of our order.

What is the source of this map?

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 12:26pm

I remember being told back in the 60s by my older relatives that the trolley shown on the map to Arlington Heights, at one time went all the way to Lexington and Bedford. And yes I know its a bus line now, but was it ever a trolley line?

Commuter Rail

By David P.
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 1:15pm

Perhaps you're thinking of a commuter line, anon. If you ride the Minuteman Bikeway all the way out to Bedford, they have an old passenger train car sitting there, open to the public as a free (small) museum. In there, I learned that what is now the bike path was once run as a commuter line with DMUs between Boston and Bedford by a private company. Later, it was absorbed into the MBTA's commuter rail system. Obviously, after some time, they stopped running it and eventually the right-of-way was converted to a bike path.

1910

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 2:26pm

This map from 1910 answers some questions and raises many others
http://www.transitboston.com/resources/transit-rig...

Whoa!

By TomW
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 4:46pm

Check out that 1922 map at that same link. There's a crazy drunken dotted line labelled "subway" that starts at the Charlestown Bridge and meanders all over the place, through the North and West Ends, then Beacon Hill and the Common, then disappears off the map towards Bay Village. I wonder what the story is there.

it says subway, but also

By greenlinetobrooklyn
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 7:06pm

it says subway, but also looks like it could be an outline of the original Shawmut peninsula

Trolleys beyond Arlington Hts.

By K-car Matt
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 3:34pm

Didn't the Middlesex and Boston have routes into Lexington that terminated at Arlington Heights?

There was a connecting

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 3:52pm

There was a connecting streetcar line from Arlington to Lexington and Bedford, part of the Lexington & Boston Street Railway Company which was later absorbed by the larger Middlesex & Boston Street Railway. The M&B converted their lines from streetcar to bus between 1924 and 1930, The line from Arlington to Lexington was converted in 1924. The MBTA took over the bus routes of the M&B in 1972.

The Boston El/MTA streetcar from Harvard to Arlington Heights was converted to bus in 1955.

Indeed

By Div2Supt
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 4:51pm

The Lexington and Boston (later merged into the M&B) ran through service at least as far as Bedford and Billerica. For a brief time, the so-called "foreign cars" were allowed to run through to the Harvard Subway. The trolley lines were converted to bus in the very early 1920s.

Arlington Heights to Concord

By anon
Tue, 09/16/2014 - 12:33pm

Someone posted this to twitter. I assume this line went through Lexington, then Bedford, then Concord.
https://twitter.com/Division2Supt/status/511699470...

Lexington did once have streetcar service!

By Bomar
Tue, 09/16/2014 - 8:49pm

In addition to the single-track railroad line that has since been converted to the Minuteman Bikeway (I remember seeing rare freight trains on those rails in the 1970's), there was once trolley service to Lexington.

The Lexington, Billerica and Lowell line also served Concord and Arlington, and connected into Cambridge and Boston.

Seashore Trolley Museum has one of the cars, and they're actively restoring it in their restoration shop.

You can see what the trolley looked like (it's a double-ender with a single truck, and had long benches running along the interior) by looking at the PDF at the following link:

https://www.trolleymuseum.org/collection/documents...

Swirls , car in background of

By kvn
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 2:07pm

Swirls , car in background of trolley is 57 Ford, although I'd take a 55.

Clothing and hair

By SwirlyGrrl
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 2:26pm

Looking closer, the woman's coat, Dan River plaid skirt, sweater, and hairstyle look like those in my mom's 1959 and dad's 1961 year books.

Opera Place on Huntington

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:20am

Opera Place on Huntington Avenue sometime after 1958 as the Opera House is missing.

My guess

By BostonUrbEx
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:42am

Present day Northeastern Station. At the time it was "Opera Place."

This

By greenlinetobrooklyn
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:49am

I believe Boston Storage Warehouse was where the current Marino Center and Smith Halls are.

trolley is on northbound Mass Ave near Christian Science Church?

By Ron Newman
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:49am

This guess is based on the BOSTON STORAGE WAREHOUSE sign. Googling finds many records saying that this was at the corner of Mass. Ave. and Westland Ave.

There was a storage warehouse

By Grant Young
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 3:54pm

There was a storage warehouse at Mass Ave and Westland. Apparently there was a second building on Huntington Ave next the the Opera House.

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/huntin.htm

Here's a picture from across the street at Huntington Grounds where the Red Sox played before Fenway Park. The storage building is clearly labeled (enlarge it a bit and its readable) and is to the left of the Opera House.

A google search places the

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:53am

A google search places the Boston storage Warehouse at the intersection of Mass & Westland Aves.

Opera Place/Northeastern University, 1959

By bohhh
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 11:53am

The car pictured was purchased secondhand from Dallas, TX in 1959. The MTA was in need of double-ended streetcars to run on routes where there was no loop. One of those routes was a Park Street - Northeastern cutback of the Arborway Line.

I would be tempted to guess earlier than 1959 based on the autos and dress, but it can't be any before 1959.

The first eight Dallas cars

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 12:42pm

The first eight Dallas cars were bought in 1958, the bought 17 more in 1959.

the view today: http://goo.gl

By pierce
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 1:19pm

the view today: http://goo.gl/maps/0UtUj

the building on the right is still there, with updated balconies

And a new cornice after the

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 2:09pm

And a new cornice after the old one collapsed.

Traction Orange vs. Tangerine

By K-car Matt
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 3:54pm

The old rumor has it that an MTA trolley came back from the shops painted in a darker tangerine color by mistake but the scheme was soon adopted as standard by the late 1950s. A brighter traction orange had been used before: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ck4049/5634373879/in...

MBTA inspector and Seashore Trolley Museum member Danny Cohen was selected by by the MBTA to spearhead the PCC rebuilding program of the late 1990s early 2000s so much credit for the reintroduced traction orange scheme, headlight wings and MTA style map goes to him. He wanted to reintroduce an accurate rendition of the bluish green interior color but was overruled by the superintendent of the Red Line at the time so that's why the interiors are a shade of red.

The Answer!

By anon
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 4:17pm

Thanks for playing, folks! As many of you guessed, this is Huntington Avenue at Opera Place. The year is 1959

ORANGE LINE

By grover
Mon, 09/15/2014 - 7:16pm

HYDE PARK JUST OUTSIDE OF CLEARY SQUARE

When the Mattapan Line wasn't the only place to catch an orange trolley

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