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Baker: Best to shut the door to all Syrian refugees
By adamg on Mon, 11/16/2015 - 12:46pm
The Globe reports.
Mayor Walsh issued a statement:
As a city and as a country it is not our custom to turn our backs on people who are in need and who are innocent. We have yet to receive guidelines from the federal or state government on how they will move forward, however should we be told that Boston is accepting refugees, we will work with our partners at the federal, state and local levels to ensure the safety of Boston residents.
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Comments
Any Sanctuary City mayors objecting?
Perhaps Somerville mayor Curtatone will want the undocumented Syrians in need of refuge and compassion.
As a Somerville resident
I would gladly accept Syrians as neighbors if they got to displace an equal number of knee-jerk bigots.
As a fellow Somerville
As a fellow Somerville resident - hear hear!
Can't the mayor stand up for
Can't the mayor stand up for his city without your backlash? What benefit does brining these people have on our city?
Well, there's the problem
No wonder you think we'd be in a pickle if they come here.
What benefit do Italians and Irish and Jews bring to our city?
how does that question sound to you?
A teeming metropolis.
Organized immigration. Ellis Island. Stuff written down, many rejected (I dunno how many, too lazy to google it), vetted for disease. Then released into the wild to enjoy their new found freedom.
There's a website out there showing the Hungarian border with the Syrians (and Afghani and a few others) throwing food and water away because it might be not halal (or whatever the word is). Not really gracious for free handouts from the authorities. Not a good first impression. I think the estimated 85% young male aspect raised a few eyebrows. Women and children to the front, the photographer's here.
Don't believe me? Look it up. It's all out there.
Out there is right.
You really get your info from Allen West? Or a couple of other wacko sites that headlines the story "Muslim Invaders..."
Lazy indeed.
Allen who?
The announcer was speaking Hungarian. It was quite the mob scene. But, keep your eyes closed. There might be hurtful triggering shit going on in the world.
My laziness was about the Ellis Island numbers.
Sorry, no
Laziness is plucking one nearly incomprehensible video from a slew of right wing web sites--out of thousands of videos documenting the suffering of refugees--and making that your go-to reference.
Also kind of ironic that right-wingers are blindly taking information without considering the location or source...ahem. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/hungarian-media-told-not-to...
Hungary is currently ruled...
... by a (virtually) neo-fascist (sadly, popularly elected) government. Hungarian news media are required to promote the party line.
And France has, at the port of Calais
And France has, at the port of Calais, many hundreds of people mobbing the chunnel.
France is a stable democracy with a democratically elected government. Which may be about to swing a little right.
There are videos, and I don't need to cite Breitbart to find them
"Mobbing the Chunnel?"
What is your point exactly? Yesterday you were worried about those thankless infidels; now you're worried about...crowding?
Did you just wake up from a hundred years' sleep? Refugees from everywhere have been heading to Europe and England for years--this isn't a new problem. And while Syria has vaulted into the lead as the main place that refugees are fleeing, they're hardly the only ones.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24636868
Honestly. Try reading something instead of forming half-assed opinions based on videos created by totalitarian governments and distributed by right wing lunatics.
That's A Bingo Mark!
I can just see you there typing away with a smug smile on your face. Do you still yell at the Three Goats as they cross over the bridge you live under.
Syria - "world's biggest Terrorist Factory"
from the lips of French President Francois Hollande. Fellow Sanctuary City, Cambridge will surely want some too.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/paris-terror-attacks-francois-ho...
Arlington
"World's Biggest Bigot/Idiot Factory".
Makes as much sense as what you quoted.
Also, the French have centuries of experience in destabilization and exploitation in that region ... and Daesh got a huge boost from our destruction of civilization in Iraq.
The "world's biggest terrorism factory" is western colonial and corporate powers?
i grew up in arlington
and still own two rental properties there. it has it's fair share of absolute idiots for sure.
thankfully this particular idiot was smart enough to move out
good place to own rental properties though
One could argue
... that Cambridge destabilized Arlington at the end of rent control ;)
I eventually moved out for that "scary" place next door, where I could afford a whole house when my rent went up 35% over night.
Why are you denigrating
Why are you denigrating people of lower socioeconomic status than you? You are very clearly implying that it's a good thing for people of more modest means are forced out.
Huh?
Huh?
What does this comment even mean?
First they came for the
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Statue of Bigotry
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...unless they're Syrians.In that case, forget it.
State of common sense
Innocent Syrian refugees already shot up Paris, I don't think anyone in their right mind would want it to happen here. Unless, of course, you're a bleeding heatt trillionaire who can pay for an army of FBI agents we'd need to assign to each one of those "refugees" to ensure they don't go full allahakbar on us one day, like they did in Paris. Mr Soros, got a trillion or so you could spare?
Do you know something we don't?
Last I read, one of the 8 suspects may have had a Syrian passport; the rest were French or Belgian citizens.
Fake
According to liberation.fr, it was either fake or stolen. The police are still working on it.
Riiiiiiiight
And according to infowars Omaba is really ctulhu...
Actually; CNN and others I've
Actually; CNN and others I've read are reporting on the fake passport.
Why do you find it so objectionable?
From what I've read it's pretty easy to get a fake Syrian passport.
Last time I checked
Refuges don't enter with passports, let alone fake ones.
Limiting travel from war torn nations is a policy we can debate about, but how does limiting Syrian refuges make sense.
Let's refuse the people that are refusing the rule of and running away from ISIL. That will show them!
Any idiot can see the objective of this terrorist attack. Punish French citizens along with punishing those fleeing ISIL. This sort of stupid rehtoric on refuges is once again playing right into the terrorists objective.
It's funny no matter where you go, how the far right on each side is ultimately on the same team and stoking the same irrational fear and hatred. Same tools, different objectives.
Of course even the refugees
Of course even the refugees present identification to the countries they are traveling through. Maybe not a passport, but they do show an ID.
According to the Washington Post, some think one of the terrorists did come through Greece via claiming refugee status.
The found Syrian passport by one of the bombers has not been authenticated yet and I'm sure they are working on that.
Are you saying that it's impossible that any one with terrorrist sympathies could come through with the mass of refugees and claim to be fleeing the very terror they are proposing?
Are you that naive?
I'm sure most of the refugees from Syria are just trying to survive, but to think that there is no one taking advantage of the situtation is absurd. My God, I couldn't possibly be the first person to think of this!!
And from what I've read in the past few weeks, the problem Europe is having is that many claiming Syrian refugee status aren't even from Syria, just people taking advantage of the situation. Is it OK to weed out those folks?
it's a very emotional issue to be sure.
Think about it
And of course refugees leave their homes in a sane and orderly fashion, carrying all their important documents with them. None of them ever have to run for their lives without even a minute's warning.
Yes
And how do you know you're dealing with a refugee who's here because he's trying to escape Isis/nusra/rebels/assad/etc and not a friendly bearded lad who's here because he wants to blow you and everyone around you to tiny bits to make allah even more akbar? There's plenty of both types in Syria right now, and it's not like he's going to have it tattooed across his forehead. This is a golden opportunity for ISIS to cause some real damage, and as we have already witnessed they're certainly way too smart to pass it up.
Wake up, nitwit
If you seriously think that the current situation constitutes more of a "golden opportunity" than has existed for years, you're an ignorant alarmist with a college-sophomore level vocabulary of dog-whistle terms and not much more. But I'll go there. Just what do you mean by "real damage"? A bomb in a crowded sporting event? Oh wait, that already happened, it was those two brothers from ISIS...oh, wait...well, if we'd just scanned harder for ISIS we could have prevented them from...um...
Ignorant people like you will always be chasing after the guy who robbed you last week, and trampling innocent bystanders as you go.
Certainly it's possible to
Certainly it's possible to have potential terrorists in the waves of refugees, but it's not the best or most effective method. ISIS has a large number of French and other EU passport holders in their ranks. *That* group doesn't need to get in a wave of refugees to Turkey and then take a rubber raft over to a Greek island to then get into the queue to get resettled in Europe. ISIS has the funds to send those people from Istanbul on a flight to Frankfurt and then take a train to Paris.That is much more effective and likely to succeed.
French or Belgian citizens
French or Belgian citizens born to immigrants from the middle east and North Africa. Great argument for immigration.
I'm sorry, can you clarify something?
Are you Native American? Or African-American? If so, by all means, rail against immigration - since the former saw their land invaded, and the latter was taken from their land by force. If, however, you are of European descent, and you're yelling about immigration, kindly piss up a rope.
Yawn.
Yawn.
So which is it?
Native American or African-American?
A very close family member
A very close family member can trace her roots to being a Native American.
Is she allowed to state her opinion, with those credentials?
that old canard is so lame.
opinions are like you-know-what
Why is it "lame" to point out that it's absurd for people of predominantly European descent to carp about immigration and asylum seekers?
What "old canard"?
Your'e an immigrant, Patricia. You don't get to shut the door of the country club once you get in.
This has all happened before, you know.
Very cute
But immigrants back in the days came here to work, and would starve to death in the streets if they couldn't find work. Now, would you be so kind as to tell us how much an average refugee costs the taxpayers nowadays?
Try researching the history of immigrants
No, they wouldn't starve if they couldn't find work. Back in the day, people from specific towns in Europe would tend to stay together when they got here. They formed groups to help each other out (this is why the North End still has feasts sponsored by groups from specific towns and why West Roxbury has so many tiny little Jewish cemeteries).
Is this where I post that 1939 survey about how Americans felt about taking in Jewish refugee children from Germany?
People (my grandparents) who
People (my grandparents) who came here had to have sponsors lined up before they came. A job and a place to live was also required before they even got here!
Also, as my parents were told when they were children, if ever in need - go to the Church. Many immigrants of the time (and today) find refuge in their church.
Sure thing
They cost negative dollars.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-refugee-crisis-will-a...
Thanks for asking.
Oh, and note the line in the article about how the UK is only accepting a meager 4,000 refugees and will therefore unlikely see any benefit unlike Germany and others accepting much greater numbers.
7/10
Could have used a line about Elizabeth Warren being an Indian
By your idiot logic
By your idiot logic, we'd be making Massachusetts a lot safer if we banned "immigration" from guns-for-all states.
Not quite
Idiots from guns-for-all states will at worst have a little accident with one of their toys and deposit their brain matter all over the wall and/or floor. A terrorist posing as a refugee, on the other hand, will do his best to ensure the brain matter in question belongs to everyone around him, and as we have just witnessed, those can potentially number in hundreds.
Quite
It's been such a long time, so it's easy to see how you might forget, but do yourself a favor and Google "Dylann Roof."
Sure
Sick, hateful nutjobs like Roof who are willing to murder those who are different certainly do exist around here, but luckily they're one in many millions. Now, how many nutjobs are out there in Syria right now who are willing to chop your head off or pump you full of lead over a picture of an old bearded guy, among other equally silly things? And, more importantly, how do you know they're not trying to pay us a visit mixed in with the crowd of real refugees and collect their 72 virgins while taking at least 72 infidels along for a ride? It's not like they'll be wearing ISIS t-shirts. Heck, even if they were, clowns like you still would insist they're simply followers of an ancient Egyptian goddess.
Clowns like you are why little children die in Newtown
Yes, Syria is a fucked up place, no question. So are a lot of places. But most Muslims are no more likely to kill you than most Christians
Really?
So you agree that Syria is a fucked up place - in that case, who's doing all the killing? Is it the atheist Russians? The Yazidi Christians? Giant desert scorpions, perhaps? Also, who's responsible for at least 95% of worldwide terrorist attacks over the past 20 years or so? Is the pesky IRA at it again? And lastly, care to explain how I'm the reason why little children die in Newtown? I'm all for universal background checks and easier access to medical and criminal records to ensure nutjobs like Lanza or Roof can't get their hands on guns.
Ah, the IRA
Tell me, were people demanding an end to Irish immigration when the IRA and their Protestant counterparts were busy blowing things up?
As for Newtown, OK, that was an irrational reaction to your irrational reaction. But we keep having Christian men going on mass murder sprees in this country and yet we do nothing about it.
Christians
Men doing the killing here kill for many different reasons - some kill those are black. Others kill those who are white. Or those who are rich and spoiled - you get the idea. But I don't recall anyone killing because a certain carpenter of unknown origins or his alleged pops from a certain fairy tale told them so, that hasn't happened in quite a while. And, like I said before, those monsters are very few and far between.
Now, remind me, what does "allahuakbar" mean again? Is it "take that, you asshole?" "Get him!" perhaps? "Mmmm, that was a delicious human heart?" That's what all terrorists scream before doing their deed - gotta be something along those lines, right?
Collective guilt
Sorry, I'm not going to condemn 1 billion people because of the actions of a few, anymore than I'm going to condemn all gun owners because of the actions of a few (except in ludicrous discussions such as the one above).
Well
Collective guilt is bad and all, and few millions out of over a billion is still just a fraction of one percent, but those millions would love to swing by and chop our heads off (or be a little more practical and machine-gun us or blow us to tiny bits.) There's no way to tell them from the rest of the refugees - are you OK with a few hundred worthless yanks here and there getting allahakbared every now and then just so you can assuage your bleeding heart? I mean, we already forgot about the Tsarnaevs, that was what, over 100 years ago?
Citation needed
Millions of Moslems? Really?
As for the Tsarnaevs, again, just so you know, I'm not a fan of collective guilt. Blaming all Moslems for them would be like blaming all Christians for Dylann Roof.
A century ago, Jewish anarchist bombers were a problem
as described, for instance, here. Does this mean Adam's ancestors and mine shouldn't have been allowed into the US?
Shifting goalposts
Shifting goalposts..
Right. Never happened. Oh, wait...
Right! A long long while! Oh, wait...
Right! So few and far between that we surely don't need to vet the Christians among us.
...but why not be safe?
We may have heard something
We may have heard something if the IRA was blowing stuff up in the states. Their attacks were directed at the British in NI and elsewhere.
No comparison.
and ...
funded by Boston $$$
Oh, minor detail. Meanwhile, Irish illegals were ignored in Boston. How convenient.
Don't worry about it, bro.
Who are the number one victims of ISIL?
....Muslims.
By your logic, you've got nothing to worry about. Unless you're telling us you're secretly a Muslim?
OK,
then why are they trying to leave the ME to get to, well, practically anywhere else? A silly statement, Adam. I think the ME is about where Europe was about 500 years ago, internecine wars on all scales fought constantly. Maybe some day that statement will be true, but, well, I dunno, the ME is a total friggin train wreck.
Internecine wars fought constantly?
The internecine wars in Europe did not stop 500 years ago (WW's 1 and 2, among hundreds of other examples) and continue to this day.
Ireland, Ukraine, Serbia, Croatia, Kosovo, Bosnia, and the Basque region, just to name a few from the last few years.
From what we know so far, the bombings in Paris were committed by European citizens against other European citizens.
I said, "I think the ME is
I said, "I think the ME is about where Europe was about 500 years ago, internecine wars on all scales fought constantly."
I said nothing about when they stopped. Reading comprehension, according to some good folks here, is important.
Please actually pay attention
Please actually pay attention to the news before commenting on it.
And also
I'd recommend some reading of history as well. What is past is prologue.
*headdesk*
If I may borrow from the quote making its way around the interwebs (though clearly not onto FoxNews.com, where you most likely ooze around):
You do realize that the people who shot up Paris were the people the Syrian refugees were *fleeing* from, right?
What is particularly stupid here
Syrians are typically well educated and many speak English! A Greek-American friend of mine was translating for them while she was in Greece last month as they washed ashore in Lesvos because she spoke English and Greek, and most refugees had at least one family member with them who spoke English.
I'd say that Baker is an idiot if he isn't asking for more Syrians, not fewer! Many will resettle quite nicely, given their level of skill and language ability.
This was floated a few months back
Sounds smart to me. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/opinion/let-syrians-settle-detroit....
Not like the brazen giant of
I can't imagine how
I can't imagine how heartbreaking it must be for the people looking to flee this violence and oppression to painted with such broad brush strokes. To reject the people who themselves have rejected this system of beliefs and packed up and left to seek a better life really tarnishes the image of our city, state and nation. We have gone from a place that welcomed the wretched huddled masses yearning for freedom and a new life, to discriminating based on religion and country of origin.
People in this country think we have the moral high ground when we just recently bombed a doctors without borders hospital killing many innocent people. We expect others to not judge all Americans by the actions of those who are responsible for those deaths yet we judge all Syrians by the actions of terrorists.
"Heartbreaking"
Y'know what else is heartbreaking? Burying a loved one who has been the victim of a terrorist attack.
What the UHub headline is missing is the key quote from Gov. Baker's statement - "as of right now." This isn't necessarily a forever thing, this is until the system gets sorted out.
lol youre hilarious
well, this terribly immoral thing isnt THAT bad, because we're only being terribly immoral for an indeterminate amount of time, not forever.
yeah, i wont even bother cherry picking examples of that failing miserably throughout history. you're obviously very smart and can probably figure it out on your own.
in 2013 the USA averaged 37.5 homicides per day. honestly at this point ISIS would probably make this country mathematically safer.
at the very least, i think we can allow refugees in.
Even less "forever" than you think
Charlie Baker has no authority to prevent people from entering the USA and no authority to prevent people from crossing state lines into MA. He's an idiot and so is anyone who thinks what he is advocating is possible, sensible or legal.
i would argue
that people being unfamiliar with a refugee law and how it pertains to the powers granted to state level officials would not make them idiots
Yes, but...
No, that just makes someone ignorant. Opening up your pie-hole and blathering about it while in a state of ignorance? THAT makes him an idiot.
Yes, two things can be
Yes, two things can be heartbreaking at the same time
Might as well block the
Might as well block the swaths of people trying to get away from ISIS just because a small chance someone from ISIS will get through. Baby, bathwater, etc.
The US helped create this mess, the least they could do is help with the repercussions such as the refugee crisis rather than letting Europe take the brunt of it.
Right
It's also worth noting that the "mastermind" behind the Paris attacks wasn't a immigrant, nor where most of the attackers. But why care about facts when you have mindless partisan politics to hold up. USA USA USA
French citizens
Might as well block all French citizens from entry, too, given that there's a chance that some ISIS terrorists will get in. Makes as much sense as blocking innocent Syrians who are actively fleeing the violence of ISIS and their ilk.
agree
we should be blocking french citizens
French Kissing too
At least in public. Get a room, people!
ban
While we git-er-ing that done, let's head down to Foxboro and get er us some freedom fries!
i've already switched
to texas toast
Originally this was "German toast"
A recipe calendar from 1908 called "French toast" "German toast". Apparently everything with German in the name (except maybe measles) got renamed after we went to war against Germany in WW1.
WW1
Which we had to call WWI because the kaiser stole the number 1.
Not the French toast alert next!!!
Say it ain't so, Adam!
Just kidding, I don't buy any of that crap anyways.
But seriously let's vet them stringently and slowly let them in.
And if they can't document being true refugees they could be brought in temporarily on condition they agree to monitoring.
We need to declare war on Daesh and go on a war footing and mobilize the willing world against them.
Refugee situation will not improve until this is done.
Now French dressing?
If that abomination can be banned I'm all for it.
And why didn't we wipe Russian dressing off the menus during the Cold War!
McDonald's did
They called it 'Special Sauce'. ;-)
And some time in the '80's it was sold in grocery stores as 'Big H Sauce'. Not by McD's, though. It didn't last long, I suspect due to maneuvers by McD's.
Mastermind
Last time I checked generals coordinated everything from a safe place far away from the front lines, it was the soldiers who did all the fighting. This isn't Homeland, Abu Nazier won't show up on your doorstep. A bunch of brainwashed young men hellbent on killing infidels though? Very bloody likely.
Babies & bathwater
Unfortunately that analogy is too tragically apt in this case given the images that shocked the world earlier this fall.
CHRISTIANS ONLY
My favorite part about the bonehead response is the idea we should allow Christians in but not Muslims -- as if there's some simple blood test you can do for religion.
I'm curious how many complaining about a "War on Christmas" understand that trying to force one's religious practices upon society as a whole is EXACTLY what ISIS wants as well.
Also, Why is it that when it comes to supporters of 2nd amendment rights believe the signers of the constitution where infallible. Yet, when it comes to separation of church and state, well, the constitution can't always be right.
Christians aren't fleeing Syria
Not at the same rate as other Syrians, anyway. Assad is actively sheltering them and rebuilding their communities.
Does not compute!
But Assad is bad! And Christians are good! But Assad is fighting ISIS. But Putin is helping Assad.
I demand an easy answer, preferably something which blames Obama.
/snark
Links?
Where have you heard this? At least a third of Syrian Christians have fled. Yes--if choosing between Assad and Isis, Assad is the logical choice (as Saddam was in Iraq) but still...
Some recent stuff
I found all sorts of stuff going back to 2011, but this from this week:
Source
There is also this Breitbart article from March, but I'll leave the judgement on truth vs. thruthiness up to you.
Hmm.
From what I see the key word here is "comparatively." But plenty of Christians have emigrated or are leaving now, though proportionally they're still a small percent. Honestly--the whole thing is such a complete clusterfuck.
Good Lord, Swirly is citing Breitbart?
And there's 2 links to the same article? I can smell the desperation.
Come on now Swirly. You know that's not a legit news source. Had to dig deem for a citation, huh?
I'll bet dollars to donuts Assad isn't rebuilding anything for anyone. He's hanging on by his teeth and looting the treasury and looking for his exit strategy.
My source? What every other dictator in history has done before they've been overthrown.
lol, just lol
people that suggest we're at any higher risk for allowing refugees in from these countries are effectively saying they believe there is a higher risk of their tv getting stolen if a black neighbor moves in next door
congrats idiots.
conversely, good job isis, you're clearly accomplishing your goals handily, so credit where credit is due i suppose.
Speaking strictly
Speaking strictly mathematically, yes, both examples you provided lead to increased risk.
This is disgraceful
I'm really ashamed of our "leadership". This is disgraceful. This is so unworthy of our ideals.
For once
we are in total agreement. Feeling completely gut-punched by this. Ashamed for our state that we are hot of the heels of LA, TX, and AL.
nah
we aren't really similar to those places at all, i suggest you spend more time in the rural areas of those states and either be or interact with a minority. and look at the glances you get from the white people down there lmfao.
That's not enough
My old granddad had a saying, "This is not a competition to see who's the worst." It was his way of saying that one shouldn't take pride in not being as bad as others. This is something to be ashamed of, not to say "eh, those other people are worse" about.
except
i claimed that, verbatim, 'we aren't really similar at all' not that 'well we aren't as bad as they are'
No--just saying
that I read first that Bobby Jindal and the governors of TX and AL had said no Syrians, then Michigan which is even more shocking given their population and then Indiana and then us. It's a pretty sad crew to be allied with.
more hyperbole damn
unless the governors of these states and ours have come out and supported each other i would hardly call them allies, just similarly idiotic on one issue. allies implies conspiracy. what we have here is a failure to understand the powers of state vs federal agencies, as well as a complete fart of a basic level of human understanding.
also it amuses me that you think an area having a higher population of a certain type of people would make that area more tolerant of them. ask my latino brethren in the south of the US how they feel about that
They're fellow travelers, OK?
We get it, OK? We get it that they're not "allies" in any meaningful sense. Now do you get the point that if people are inspired by each other's idiocy to do the same stupid shit, whether they're "allies" or not is not particularly relevant to the harm they do?
Charlie Baker tarred himself with this brush. If he wants to scrape off the mess he's made, he can do it himself. Or he can try.
nah
he hasn't tarred himself. i frankly assume that most of the people that vote don't consider this to be a very egregious stance.
tarring, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder
Ok
Idiotic on one issue, then.
But I'm still surprised that the Arab population of Michigan doesn't wield a bit more political influence at least on a local level.
as a former resident of MI
that population is very, very concentrated when you take a look at the state as a whole.
plus, while i admit i didnt live in dearborn, i can only assume that Ford having its world headquarters there probably has the brunt of any political power anyway
Disgraceful, indeed
Baker's action is cynical, self-serving, hate-enabling posturing of the worst kind.
(edited for clarity due to expanding thread)
Hey, I wish
xenophobia was a character defect rather than a survival instinct. But, it's just too friggin crazy out there.
Iran is Shia and Persian. They speak Farsi, not Arabic. The Baathists (Al-Assad and Saddam Hussein) are Sunni and Arab. The folks running (if you could call it that) Iraq are Shia, but not Persian. They're Arabs. When the Iranians show up to help, it doesn't always go well. The Syrians have Al-Nusra and about a dozen other individual sects, all fighting each other as well as Al-Assad.
Al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula took credit for the Charlie Hebdo attack. They also are pushing into Yemen, where the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (Arab and Sunni) and their good buddies the Iranians (Shia Persians) are fighting them, but only in the east. The UAE apparently sent at least one Patriot battery into Yemen with UAE ground troops helping the government there fight Iran backed Shia rebels. I think this is in the western part of the country. I might have my geography reversed.
Hamas and Hezbollah want to kill every Jew in the area, so they can get on with the important work of fighting each other. The Jews are not willing to cooperate with that. The Kurds are Sunni, but they really don't go to church all that much. They just want to be left alone, collect oil revenue and not be bothered with it all. They also happen to be the best, most pragmatic group of fighters over there. They have female fighters in their ranks, fully equal to the men. Some are professional snipers. Given any kind of backing, they can usually win whatever objective they want. They are tactical and smart. Turkey, a once secular but more Islamic state, has a large Kurdish population. They really don't like each other.
The Taliban (remember them?) are in Pushtun Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan. They move across the border sporadically, depending on local conditions.
The crazier Islamic terrorists wish to spread the caliphate to the entire world. They will fail, but it's just a question of how many innocent victims they will take with them. The wahabbi schools of conservative (or radical, heh) Islam as taught by our good friends the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia really did come back to bite them on their oil-rich asses. They have a problem in the Kingdom. How many Syrians did they take in? Zero. Nada. None. They're afraid to. They won't do it.
So why should we? Let them resettle in a Muslim country where they can have their religion without being bothered.
Over 150,000 Bosnian Muslims
Remember that war? We let in 150,000 people.
Was there any problem?
Citation please.
Citation please.
380,000 Russians, 180,000 Vietnamese, 169,000 Former Yugoslavian
http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/america-tonight...
Let them resettle in a Muslim
That's part of the problem, you nitwit! Do you think the Taliban quietly allowed Muslims with a more secular mindset to go about their business? Do you think that wahhabis tolerate Sufis? Or that ISIS tolerates anyone who doesn't 100% toe their line?
Dumbest idea ever. EVER.
That's part of the problem, you nitwit!
Yup, I guess I'm just a nitwit or an idiot, like everyone else here that disagrees with your always correct thoughts.
Sorry, I thought you might be bright enough to note the sad irony in my statement.
" Do you think the Taliban quietly allowed Muslims with a more secular mindset to go about their business? Do you think that wahhabis tolerate Sufis? Or that ISIS tolerates anyone who doesn't 100% toe their line? "
Why not? It's the Religion of Peace.
"Let them resettle in a Muslim country where they can have their religion without being bothered."--me
That's the problem. There are none.
Ideals are not always reality
Ideals are not always reality.
Is that what you told your mom
Is that what you told your mother when you did something shameful? "Hey, ideals are not always reality, Mom!"
Updated post with statement from Walsh
Not saying no just yet, I think.
i actually laughed
at the idea that walsh thinks he has any say over any of this
tough noogies, Charlie
The U.S. signed the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as did nearly every other country (most in 1951; the U.S. joined in 1967 when the terms were broadened a bit - so that not solely people displaced during WWII were counted as refugees.)
Thank you
Thank you Mr Tucker.
I was going to post this link
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/16/3722628/no-state-governors-c...
Which I just saw come thru on Facebook. Charlie can say he doesn't want to but he has virtually no say in the matter)
So what his statement really means is..
So what his statement really means is that he's an ignorant, posturing, attention-seeking security-theater blowhard.
Yes
Yes!
(OMG we're agreeing for once)
In other words
he's a card carrying Republican.
Notice how Charlie always has Tea Party Polito..
..standing next to him? That's who he selected as his Lt. Gov. That's all you need to know about Charlie.
Moderate Republican? Nope.
Typical Republican? Yup.
You would think that we would have learned our lesson with Mitt. Nope.
damn my eyes
I initially read that as "Tea Party Polio".
I suppose you could get that from poor ideological sanitation resulting from inadequate reality infrastructure.
You are remarkable!
You are remarkable!
You win the prize!!
I thought I've read it all......
the politicalization of this tragedy is expected on both sides. This post is the best though! He/She even managed to bring in the tea party (I thought they were dying out for some time, you mean they're still around? Weren't we told they fizzled out some time ago?
Some (most) of the posts today are just so over the top, it's really unbelievable.
Politicization on both sides you say, Patricia?
Republican Charlie Baker's statement about keeping out Syrian refugees was 100% pure politics and had nothing to do with public safety.
And to date 100% of the grandstanding governors making similar statements are Republicans.
And Republican Karyn Polito has a history of palling around with the Tea Party brand of the Republican Party and other extremist right wing Republicans
"Both sides", my derriere.
NH is on board.
Democrat governor. They'll be more, I think. People are afraid of this murderous violence.
Fear
Is the mind killer.
10,000 gun murders a year
Then they should leave the US.
Simple.
Correction
DemocratIC governor.
So lame.
Yes.
Yes.
Obviously there is no room for rational thought.
Suddenly, to suggest that we have proper system in place to vet the refugees coming to our country is a bad thing. My God.
Yes, we can take these refugees and we should but why is it so awful that we make sure we know who we're taking in?
If you read the headline in the Globe, Baker said he was holding off on the refugees at this time.
What Adam wrote and what were stated were two different things.
But, you'll take it as you want it.
Please explain "both sides"
You seem to love this term "both sides", even when the realities are far more complex.
Which "both sides" are you talking about?
It seems to me we have two
It seems to me we have two options:
Let everyone in! Yay!
Refuse all refugees from Syria. Yay!
It seems to me this discussion on this board is either one or the other.
There is a happy middle, you know? There is a way to be a grown up. Vet the refugees coming in and the vetting may require a bit more than what was done in the past, given the news coming out that one of the ISIS fanatics boasts coming in with the flux of refugeees.
That is what a sensible person would do.
But to suggest such a thing will open me up to criticism and even being called a hater.
You know what? I really don't care.
We've jumped the shark.
You conveniently ignore the fact....
... that the federal system currently in place calls for extensive vetting of middle eastern refugees. How are states (and their governors) better equipped to second guess the federal approval process.
Superdelegates?
Perhaps he isn't speaking to us, but about a potential darkhorse run given the clown car that the national GOP is fielding in the coming election?
Charlie showing his true...
... colors.;
Go ahead.
Obama will get impeached if he rams this through.
Two questions
Rams through what?
Existing treaties and American law?
Existing treaties
Created hundreds of years ago that are definitely no longer applicable in their current form nowadays. A lot like the second and the forth amendments, for that matter.
The Convention is not a
The Convention is not a suicide pact.
thought exercise for you
Suppose World War III starts. Suppose hostile forces start bombing the holy hell out of American cities. Suppose you realize your only chance of survival is to flee to another country that's not a war zone. How would you feel if that country refused to accept you and your loved ones - because some Americans are prone to shooting up schools, blowing up doctors, setting fires to mosques and black churches, etc., etc., etc.? I bet you'd feel pretty bad. I bet you'd feel pretty hopeless.
Granted, this is a relatively far-fetched thought exercise, but a little bit of empathy would go a long way here. If you were a refugee, how would you want to be treated?
a systemic approach = a good thing...
I understand the knee-jerk reactions to this seeming just cold and xenophobic. But just consider this as a practical administrative move. Though perhaps not in these exact terms, I'm in support of the idea of taking a bit more time to figure out a better system for dealing with the refugee crisis. The numbers of refugees are unprecedented, and for procedural clarity therefore there needs to be enhanced coordination and cooperations amongst many nations (as well as states within). Because of open borders, Europe is struggling massively just with the simple administration and paperwork to get hundreds of thousands of new residents set up there-- Let alone properly administering security protocols by figuring out who they are and their immigration status. We can learn lessons from this by setting up a stronger framework to deal with the refugee crisis in a more streamlined and cohesive manner.
The only logical comment on
The only logical comment on this whole thread!
Congrats!
actually
recognizing that the governor of MA and even more laughably the mayor of boston have literally fuck all in the way of legal powers to dictate anything resembling refuge policy is pretty logical.
whether you like that fact or not.
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