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Consultant blames T managers for $1 billion overrun in Green Line extension costs
By adamg on Tue, 12/01/2015 - 7:32am
WBUR breaks it down and explains how the main contractor on the project learned to use the system to maximize its profits. Jon Keller notes that contractor was also involved in our other favorite bloated infrastructure project.
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Comments
"Consultant blames
"Consultant blames transportation agency for not being better at being a development agency; contractor takes blatant and unethical advantage of loopholes but carries no fault"
Transportation agency rushes project
into construction well before design is completed and finalized, thus automatically setting the stage for cost overruns and change orders.
Taking Decades To Implement A Promised Project Is Rushing?
( Well, maybe by the Ⓣ's definition of "rush". )
Since 1945
In planning since 1945.... :)
Click here for full sized image
Remember when we used to be can-do visionaries?
When we could actually plan and build such things!?!
It's time to get on the stick, Massachusetts and America. We have already squandered 6 years of record low interest rates during which we should have been building the infrastructure that will bolster our economy and act as a bulwark against all kinds of threats. Continued squandering is only an aggravating factor for this criminal offense!
Yes
I've said this before and I'll say it again. I have this map as a print out. framed, and hung in my office at home. I like the map, it shows what really could happen if we really wanted to.
The MTRC in 1945 pretty much anticipated many of the extensions we have today (D-Line, Braintree Branch, GLX, Orange Line North, etc) plus a whole lot more that went further than anything proposed or in planning today. The only extension that isn't listed there is the Alewife Branch, but the line on this map going out of Harvard to Watertown and then to Arlington could have been seen as that branch.
But back then we had contractors who actually wanted to build things for the greater good and not looking for a quick buck.
Union leadership used to care
Union leadership used to care about their trades' reputation and the product. Now they are just another level of greedy management.
What about...?
Politicians who dole out such contracts to said contractors for union votes, kick-backs and other such political favors?
in the words
In the words of Uhub...
CITATION PLEASE.
The history of corruption in
The history of corruption in the MBTA is so well-known that the scandal in the early 1980s has its own Wikipedia page.
That map is not a map of the
That map is not a map of the MBTA but of the BERy. This was a private company that actually knew what they were doing rather than a government "authority" that mostly just sucks up taxpayer dollars and wastes it on corruption and incompetence like this.
never said
Never said it was of the MBTA... its not BERy either.. its the MRTC which is a planning committee.
And it was a government commission
One can even read their report here.
Thanks for the reminder...
...that's one of my favorite "what if" visions from the past. Used to have a large printout on the wall in my old office...need to make a new one!
Ward Maps
Support your local business and have Ward Maps print one up. I think its like 30 bucks for a print on art paper.
http://www.wardmaps.com/viewasset.php?aid=9801
(Mine is a massive one on canvas.. was a gift from my roommate 2 years ago)
Thanks for clarifying that
Thanks for clarifying that yours is on canvas and was a gift from your roommate
you're welcome
I'm glad it tickled you.
youre a jerk
but i am glad he clarified since it was nice to envision it in my head as such
great map
I didn't know the Boston harbor used to be a pond.
lol
oh i know.. their geography kinda blows.. but it wasn't meant to be 'to scale'. Plus I love how the orientation isn't north like most maps.. its west.
it's a cool map and it made my head hurt...
...trying to figure out what was "off" about it. I was about to say that it's very disorienting, but that seems like poor word choice. Or great word choice? I don't know. I'm all befuddled.
I'm still waiting for the
I'm still waiting for the Blue/Red connector or Blue Line to Lynn, both of which are something like 80+ years in the planning...
Red Blue
That 2000 foot long blue line extension was estimated at 1.5 to 2 billion back about 2010. And we all know what happens to early estimates. Plus Cambridge st is a utility nightmare.
No, It Was Only $621 Million— That's Less Than 3 Red Sox Players
Just think, if they started it then, it could be finished by now!
Consultants
This is where I get to chime in on the consultant issue.
It's quite simple from my standpoint (having spent time in the public sector). As a result of the reluctance to pay professionals (e.g., architects, engineers, etc.) competitive wages in the public sector (excepting at places like Massport and MWRA, which not coincidentally have fewer issues like this), the best go straight to the private side where they get to work on the same projects for more money, plus we end up paying for the company's overall profit.
If these people were paid competitive salaries in the public sector, there would be fewer consultants brought on and we would have more and better people watching out for the public agencies. The T was outmanned and outgunned from the very beginning.
Something here.
There's a lot of genuine, real knowledge here on uh that surfaces with any train topic. I learn a lot here.
I must say that I've been involved in the ballasting of roadbed, laying of track, basic design, I was instrumental in the livery of a new set of passenger cars, a bit of the financing (cost overruns properly hidden), I have a basic knowledge of steam boilers and propulsion.
I feel qualified to comment here because I have approximately one-eighty seventh the knowledge of some of you.
Pretty much on the nose. You
Pretty much on the nose. You can expand it to Software and IT, too. States rather pay companies large consulting rates than higher software engineers/computer scientists. State IT departments are a joke, too, hiring those who can't get a much higher paying job in the private sector, or, again, out sourcing and paying 100-200$ an hour to a contractor company.
White Skanska Kiewit
So is the contractor going to be fired, or are we just going to carry on as if nothing happened?
Maybe we'll find out next month
The board is supposed to get and consider options on what to do at its meeting then.
*opens envelopes slid under the table*
We see a big bonus in their future!
It could be much worse
Like California's high speed rail project:
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cost-final-20...
w/r/t the CAHSR project...
I would argue that the Green Line miss might be worse. The scale of the CA project is so big and the engineering so much more complex that one could at least understand that the budget might move (I note that I have no more reason to believe a newspaper story than I do the CAHSR Authority). Now, if it turns out that there is a major fault line in Somerville that has gone undetected for centuries, well, I guess I could cut the T a bit more slack.
I also doubt
that farmers are illegally tapping groundwater under Somerville until the ground mysteriously collapses so they can keep growing rice and pretend there's no catastrophic drought, either.
Under budget
Once CAHSR got the budget more squared away (and $68b is $170m/mile, or a quarter the cost of the GLX per mile) the costs have started coming in. And they're under budget. Construction package 2-3 for 65 miles of railroad was expected to cost $1.5b-$2b. The final design-build bid was $1.2b. It's pancake flat and greenfield (well, tan/dirtfield), but with 18 grade separations, that's $18 million per mile. Or 4% of GLX.
Remember kids!
Privatization of the system is the answer to all our problems because the market is always kind and fair and has at its core the desire to deliver better services to all God's children. So after this anomaly of a contractor grifting as much as they can on this contract (please refrain from recalling the Big Dig...this is the New Boston) I think it's entirely reasonable to expect riders to fill in the hole their profit margins created with service cuts and fare hikes. And please keep in mind, it's the Union Hacks' fault as they have successfully negotiated good deals for themselves at your expense, as opposed to the contractors who successfully negotiated good deals for themselves at your expense. See the difference? The important thing is that we get rid of the Ride and bus routes that serve transit-dependent folks so that the life-time political appointees to MassDOT/MBTA can continue negotiating an increasing number of these swell deals as the whole shebang goes private.
/snark off
For christsake do they have Howard, Howard and Fine negotiating their contracts? Procuring new trains, design services, construction contractors, fucking defective panes of glass!! Just step on up to the MBTA boys! Everyone's a winner!!! Double down and get quadruple yer money!!
LOL
just LOL. This is good.
probably not Howard, Howard, and Fine
but maybe Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe.
Sigh.
You're right. Hell, I'm a bit right of center, believe that free markets can be an advantage. This ain't a free market.
It's crony capitalism at its worst.
I've done contracts with contractors (funny how that works) and never had a problem. Paperwork signed, everything goes well. Small projects. They usually find a cost plus problem, that happens all the time, but with careful oversight by people that know what the hell they're doing, it all works out.
This is a train wreck before the trains run, a first, I think. Hell, it's not like they're building something with 'as yet unproven' tech or vaporware. There's already a roadbed, I think. Put it out to bid. Period.
"See the difference? " Yup, with the union you have a contract that specifies your costs for four years or whatever. No guessing.
With the contractor you have a crap shoot.
Oh " Howard, Howard and Fine negotiating their contracts"
Dewey, Cheatham and Howe maybe?
Costs not known in advance
Many contracts call for payouts long after the 4 year or whatever period. (pension, retirement medical benefits, etc.) And, in the case of retirement medical benefits, the cost was completely unknown and open-ended at the time the contracts were negotiated.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing -- as a matter of public policy it's probably better that the employers took the risk for the rise in medical costs than that it be solely the retirees' bad news. But there were certainly unanticipated long-tailed liabilities.
Contract negotiators do not have stock options
and neither do any management responsible for supervising contractors quality and costs.
If they do a poor job, they still keep their job and pension, or move on to another job or transit system elsewhere. If a contract negotiator does an outstanding job, saving millions and millions of dollars, who is going to know and what reward do they get? A big bonus? A huge job promotion? Perhaps in the private sector.
So, unlike the private sector, there isn't any incentive to do a really good job in the public sector, while both have equal amounts of pride in a job well done as a reward. Pride and getting paid is better than pride alone.
Thank God
We have Charlie Baker in office. I'm totally confident that any project he's involved with will be on time and on budget!
Yah cause Deval Patrick did
Yah cause Deval Patrick did well with state finances and construction projects...
because one person is a failure
does not mean that another person cant also fail at the same thing
Other "transit" project
It was interesting how Keller referred to the Big Dig as a "transit" project. While I realize that some small number of people understand that term to encompass transportation projects encompassing various modes (i.e., including private autos), most people understand that term to refer only "public" transportation (i.e., subways, public buses, commuter rail, etc.).
One could be forgiven for concluding that Keller is either blowing a dog whistle or he thinks that the N-S connector is actually going to get done (because any "transit" parts of the Big Dig that I can think of were either incidental to the highway construction, or were required mitigation for the highway).
I should conclude by saying for the record that I am not a Big Dig hater. I think it was necessary project which could have been handled better to produce enhanced results.
For the record...
...Jon Keller is a putz and should be drowned in the Harbor.
The Ghost of the Big Dig
Will we ever manage to exorcise it? I get it, we spent too much time and too much money on it, and will continue to spend time and money on it, because the much-vaulted private sector takes a fuck-you I-got-mine attitude towards stealing from taxpayers, but at the same time, why are we constantly haunted by the Big Dig? The economy in Mass doesn't appear to be collapsing into a black hole under the debt of the project.... new buildings and housing are going up all along the greenway, new business is coming in.... I don't get it.
"because the much-vaulted
"because the much-vaulted private sector takes a fuck-you I-got-mine attitude towards stealing from taxpayers,"
I see a problem with this statement. Pushing all the Big Dig blame on private contractors is foolhardy.
We elect people to make the decisions for us. I don't remember any state or city official looking out for the public, making sure the job was done right. They were too busy padding the costs, themselves. It may surprise you, but some of our public workers also have the I got mine attitude as they pilfer taxpayer monies be it in outright theft, padding payrolls with relatives, working the system with sick pay and over time. It's all theft of public monies.
Giving those in public office at the time an out on this is playing just how they'd like it.
much-vaunted
eom
So in short and in other words...
The management is at fault because they didn't tried hard enough to make sure contractors stays honest...
...Ignoring that maybe the contractors should just be honest and not rip off the project in the first place - or at least be subtle about it. The phrase "skimming the top" has a key word of "skimming".
To my understanding, this project is high even by Americans standards that already stands much higher than other countries. So if this project is high even compared to similar projects to the other states - I can only be more baffled if we start to compare to other countries (and I mean first world countries like Japanese projects or projects in Europe).
Which leads me to the thought. How does those other countries work? I read about like how of them follow a different procurement structure - like the Madrid project - which does keep contractors from doing this shit by structure. But I hard to wonder if a lot of this is avoided simply because their contractors just don't spend their energy find ways to game the procurement system.
And if contractors are trying to game the system harder here than other states/countries, I find it very hard to feel blame that management didn't watch them hard enough. At some point, you need the players to just play fairly rather than continually trying structure the system from being game-able and with supervising every step made.
And my gut is leaning that for the latter of contractors trying to game harder than than contractors in other places.
Management does share blame!
Management does share blame! How could they not? We paid for them to oversee the project, not leave it up to contractors. Would you do that with your own home?
How many public employees got very well paid for this project? The electrician father of a rep making $200 grand?
It was a shake down of the taxpayer from both the private and public sectors.
I'm not saying management
I'm not saying management doesn't deserve blame. But the entire report focuses and analyze on the management and nothing about WSK and their role in price gouching everything. Effectively, blaming all on the MBTA and nothing on WSK for pushing for ridiculous prices.
An effective rebuttal to this is "don't hate the player, hate the game", that WSK is just trying to maximize their profits and saw they can game it - that it was the MBTA role to make sure the rules of the game didn't allow this. My point is that at some point, a question needs to be raised on the "player" than the one setting the game. I just have sense that part of why other projects in other states and countries have done this better has a role in the that their contractors, even when they see the loopholes don't go for the jugular as WSK did.
Some good news potentially
Some good news potentially for the T: Congress reaches deal on 5-year transportation bill.