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Boston, Somerville to Trump: No
By adamg on Wed, 01/25/2017 - 4:13pm
Boston Mayor Marty Walsh and Somerville Mayor Joe Curtatone today vowed to continue protecting immigrant families - including enforcing local edicts barring police from turning people into ICE for minor infractions - even at the risk of losing millions in federal aid.
Walsh vowed to use Boston City Hall itself as a sanctuary for immigrants threatened by the federal government if necessary, at an afternoon press conference at City Hall.
"You are safe in Boston," he told immigrants. "We will protect you."
Walsh said he will not waste "vital" police resources on any ICE roundups and that he is not concerned about a cut off of funds.
"No. We are going to protect, collectively, the people in this state."
"We see you and we've got your back," City Council President Michelle Wu told immigrants. "President Trump wants to tear us apart, but this only makes us stronger."
"What the president did today is an attack on the city of Boston" and similar cities, Wu said.
Walsh said he did not know how much money Boston could lose if Trump follows through on his threat to withhold all federal funds from sanctuary cities. For the fiscal year that ended in July, the city received about $250 million in federal funds for everything from education to homeland security.
Watch Walsh's and Wu's statements.
Ron Newman reports from Somerville City Hall: "Somerville will remain a sanctuary city," Curtatone said.
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Comments
"Best quality of life for all Bostonians"
Wouldn't that include working to have criminals who are here illegally removed?
Ah, you used the magic word
Criminals.
Local police departments work quite well with the feds on combatting criminals from other countries.
Key to some of these investigations is gaining the cooperation of local residents, which those same police departments earn by working with them and ensuring they will be safe from the sort of wholescale sweep-up-everybody raids Dear Leader is promising.
So even if you don't give a shit about civil liberties and basic human decency, there might be a reason to appreciate the sort of cooperation, even protection, people like Marty Walsh are talking about.
And if you do care about such things, you might recall that the last time we had such a national witch hunt, hundreds of American citizens got swept up and shipped to Mexico. Imagine somebody today trying to get back into the US without a passport.
Am I missing something?
Why do people consistently overlook the fact that undocumented immigrants (formerly called "illegal aliens") already committing a crime simply by the fact that they are undocumented immigrants? They don't necessarily have to be drug dealers or bank robbers. Whether they overstayed their visa (which is the usual way), or floated in on an innertube as cliche often has it,
the fact cannnot be ignored that they are already living in a state of broken law. I am not for any kind of wholesale rounding up, but some sort of control needs to be maintained.
Not criminals
Actually, depending on how you get here, being an immigrant or undocumented immigrant isn't illegal nor a crime. So they cant just be arrested or deported just for being immigrants. And furthermore, illegal entry is usually only a misdemeanor anyway.
I'm lucky, I didn't have to do anything to get permission to be here. A lot of other people arent so lucky, and have to get in either through our givernment systems or otherwise. Generally, this is a good place to be and you can't blame people for wanting to come. I would too if I wasn't already.
If I left the country without a passport or id, how would i get back in? If I had by chance been born elsewhere, how would i get back in? What decides who is allowed here or not?
ooh pick me, I know the answer to this!
Because unlawful presence in this country, whether by overstaying a visa or crossing the border, is NOT A CRIME. It's a civil offense. Always has been. Nobody is 'overlook[ing] the fact' because it's not a fact.
Then again, maybe you have alternative facts that say the Immigration and Nationality Act doesn't say what it clearly says.
You're committing a crime...
...when you exceed the speed limit.
What's your point?
If you exceed the speed limit you are committing a crime which is punishable under law.
It is a crime, but who is harmed?
My point is that there are many laws broken every day without harmful consequences to anyone. We know that -- it's a fact of life. That doesn't mean that the law is pointless and shouldn't be on the books, but when prioritizing which crimes should be law enforcement's highest priorities, shouldn't we think first about which ones do the most harm?
I think that this is what the present-day incarnation of the sanctuary movement is about (well, at least 90% of it) -- simply saying that local police resources won't be diverted to make local police officers act as immigration control. It's a recognition of the reality on the ground, that most immigrants of whatever status are simply people trying to live their lives. And isn't it more problematic and disruptive of society if we harass people like that?
Funny you should mention that
Deaths due to traffic fatalities vastly outnumbers deaths due to violent crime, including terrorism.
If you're generally a law abiding citizen the biggest threat you face is transportation related. (Excluding cancer, etc.)
No.
Speeding is not a crime in Massachusetts. Please learn the difference between criminal and civil offenses, and stop spreading false information.
If you go fast enough it is.
Then it's an arrestable offense.
Might be a good analogy. If you're here illegally, you can be deported. That's a fact, always has been and will not change. The issue is when do we enforce that. If an illegal (hey, good enough for SCOTUS, good enough for me) commits a serious offense, then that's different.
There's a world of difference between some gangster and some guy just trying to make a better world for his family.
So that would mean it's just
So that would mean it's just as much a crime as being in the country illegally!
DIY Pokemon
A wild troll has appeared.
You used humanity on the troll it's supper effective and caused paralysis.
The troll fainted.
If that's a crime, it's a victimless crime
I'm not against deporting convicted violent criminals who are undocumented (it costs less than keeping them in prison here), but just being here is not hurting anyone.
Not a sanctuary for violent criminals
Mayor Curtatone said that explicitly.
You just might see ICE
You just might see ICE vehicles and other U.S. Government agencies in upcoming days or weeks driving around East Boston, Chelsea and Revere offering cash rewards for those that know who and where are the illegals hideout areas are, countless raids will be going on soon.
Trump is acting like hitler.
Or you might not.
What you're saying is pure conjecture.
It seems Mayor Walsh doesn't
It seems Mayor Walsh doesn't seen any difference at all between a legal immigrant and and illegal immigrant.
It seems
It seems Donald Trump doesn't seen any difference at all between a legal immigrant and and undocumented immigrants.
Can you point us to a speech
Can you point us to a speech or statement where Trump says anything negative referencing the word "immigrant" without the word "illegal" in front of it? I can't.
"Undocumented" is newspeak,
"Undocumented" is newspeak, used by the left.
THANK YOU
With the Democrats in Washington doubling down on their commitment to sit on their thumbs until this all somehow blows over, it's nice to see a show of backbone from our local elected officials.
Must be...
An election year...
Just make sure the homeless vets stay on mass n cass while illegals cram into public housing and illegally sub let for cash.
Also, make sure all Boston jobs go to "Boston" residents...like all the votes that got him elected were from true City residents only. Lol
"This town needs an enema!"- the joker
Blah blah Alt Fact Blah!
Blah blah talking point blah blah unsubstantiated just so story blah blah hate blah blah blah alt fact blah blah blah
The dame
In the ivory tower "speaks."
Been working for the city for a long time now.
My observations are authentic and steadfast.
My results may not be empirical, nor to your liking....but naturalistic observation is an intrinsic aspect of the scientific process.
Your quote squirrellygirl, is a projection of your own hysterics.
I figure your a big Freud fan.....
[citation needed]
Statistics to prove it or STFU
Not ivory tower
Despise Freud.
Thoroughly despise his nonempirical followers obsessed with philosophy over evidence.
The projection is all yours.
Is your nickname "GIGO?"
Garbage In. Garbage Out.
Thank you!
Thank you, Mayors Walsh and Curtatone. You make us proud.
If we lose millions in
If we lose millions in Federal aid, what does that mean? I'm serious, please. No snide remarks. I sincerely and concerned and want to know. I am not a Trump supporter AT ALL and I want to know what happens if we lose millions in Federal aid. Does that mean Massachusetts will have to reevaluate/reallocate/shift around budget items to accommodate such significant loss? Or, does the Federal Government stipulate exactly which programs they are cutting off? Will taxpayers suffer because of this consequence? Will it cause the closure of even more homeless shelters, after school programs, etc., etc., etc.? AGGGHHHHH!!!
We stop paying our federal taxes
We already subsidize southern states who don't pay enough for their own upkeep.
Then we join Canada with the rest of Province New.
Ya that
Will never happen.
Said King George
Said King George
Said Abraham Lincoln.
Said Abraham Lincoln.
Canada Doesn't Have
Canada enforces its immigration law
Canada has illegal immigrants
Canada has illegal immigrants as well, though having the US as a buffer between it and much poorer countries does minimize it.
a modest proposal
What if we passed a new revenue bill with a 2020 sunset clause, that would temporarily increase MA income tax, allowing residents to then claim it as a deduction off our federal taxes?
There must be a CPA amongst the UHubbers who can weighh in on how this might be possible.
Iffy
Since deducting state taxes on the federal tax form requires you to itemize deductions, that would have to be a pretty sizable tax increase for those non-mortgage holders to justify itemizing.\
/TaxNerd
thanks, tax nerd!
Okay, we make it sizable, then wipe out the fee for online itemized filing on mass.dor.gov. I've itemized for various reasons for so long now, it's second nature, but maybe the state could work with TurboTax or whomever to come up with simple filing software for folks to declare income tax.
if you are going to raise the
if you are going to raise the state tax rate, dedicate the proceeds to fixing the MBTA. never rnind the circumventious shenanigans with the sunset.
If we lose millions in
If we lose millions in federal aid, will GE have to pay for their own freakin' helipad? *gasp*
Full video of Mayor Curtatone's press conference
Here. (I do not know how to embed a video)
Trump will probably pay $1000
Trump will probably pay $1000 to those who know where illegals are hiding around Boston.
Not legal
Not that it will stop him.
Other illegals might not cooperate with police is a joke
This is the reddest of red herrings. Illegal immigrant witnesses to crime have no fear, since cooperating local and state police only report to ICE the names of those arrested not those who are witnesses. In fact, cooperating with police would benefit a witness at any future deportation hearing for those who have cut the line.
Also, what is the punishment for a police officer, who took an oath of office to enforce the laws, when he reports a federal law breaker/ illegal alien to ICE? I would love to be a fly on the wall at that Civil Service hearing, better yet on the receiving end of the payout after lawsuit. Does the non-cooperation with ICE policy negate the policy requiring officers to cooperate with other federal agencies? If the illegal has already been deported once and returns (felony) does that make Walsh and Curtatone an accessory before or after the fact? They and their ilk may want to look into the Homestead Act and a decent personal liability policy. You can't make it up.
The only joke here
The fake cop with his truthyish taking points and alternative facts once again spewing lies.
Everything you say is undocumented. Perhaps you should deport your computer.
deport your computer?
how did you know it didn't belong?
syntax error
hahahaha man, what a great time to be alive
That's how they got robo-Capone
Syntax fraud.
ai capone
ai capone
You can't make it up.
And yet here you are, doing just that, day in and day out.
Bugger off, you crypto-fascist wannabe cop.
no human being is illegal.
people may commit illegal acts, but they are not themselves illegal.
According to the law...
...their presence here is illegal. If I'm in your kitchen without your permission, I'm trespassing.
Swirl can berate FISH all she wants, but his post contains valid points.
Nope
Civil offence - like a parking ticket.
in this case their actions are illegal...
...but they are not. i know it's a semantic difference, but it has a large impact on how we view and think about other human beings.
and i didn't comment on any other part of FISH's post, nor did i mean it to negate anything else he said. i pick my battles ;-)
This is exactly the semantic
This is exactly the semantic difference between an "illegal gun" and an "illegally-possessed gun". Perhaps both sides could agree to use the correct terminology on the respective issues?
so first of all...
... there is a world of difference between calling a human being inherently illegal and calling an inanimate object inherently illegal. one dehumanizes, and the other doesn't.
but second of all, you also might want to assume that there are more than two sides in the world. my opinions on immigration do not necessarily automatically correlate with my opinions on gun ownership. for example, i am crazy liberal on most topics, but i am also a gun owner. so in this case, i might tend to agree with you. as you know, a gun that is illegal to possess in massachusetts might be legal to own in another state. the gun isn't illegal. the possession of the gun is.
Big difference
If you are in my kitchen without my permission, you are trespassing, which is a crime. If you overstay your visa, you are here illegally and are subject to deportation, but you have not committed a crime.
People seem to have an impossibly difficult time understanding this.
The vast majority of things that are illegal are not crimes, and the government's remedy is to force you to correct the illegal condition, but there is no penalty.
For example, if your new bathroom addition is not plumbed according to code, it is illegal, but you have committed no crime. The city's remedy is to force you to fix the code violation.
As a cop did you report EVERY
As a cop did you report EVERY broken tail light or expired inspection to the RMV? Did you stop EVERY speeder on the road? EVERY driver who couldn't clear an intersection?
Why did you violate your oath and let all those ILLEGAL drivers go free?
ok great
we're a sanctuary city. thats all well and good. we're losing millions in federal funding, that is unfortunate.
companies like GE still end up with sweetheart deals to come to boston WHY?
Federal law trumps,
pardon the expression, municipal and state. People who call themselves progressives usually love pointing this out.
Amen
The Constitution grants the federal government alone the power to regulate immigration. End of story. States and cities cannot, and should not, be making their own immigration policies - even if the federal policy sucks.
For most on the left, states' rights and nullifcation have long been dirty words (for good reason). Now they're practicing the same thing that Southerners were in the 60s. Great.
It's not an "immigration policy"
It is not an "immigration policy". It is a policy about the priorities and scope of local law enforcement. Do you also expect the BPD to enforce US trade regulations?
Separation of Powers
I know that may be as foreign to you as the idea that the President has legal restrictions on power, but you might want to read those tricky governing documents known as the Constitution and Bill of Rights some time - as well as the 230 years of case law that interpret them.
Not really
I don't expect the Boston Police Department to enforce copyright law, EPA regulations, or IRS tax filing deadlines. And I don't expect them to enforce Federal immigration law either.
Polic
You try and play by the rules and you can't find enough LICENSED plumbers, electricians and carpenters to finish your jobs properly, even if it means you come back every 2 months and ask everything good? Do you need anything else, etc? But no they are too busy to follow up, ok? But now City Hall stands with the unlicensed, undocumented workers that if you use them you risk fines, lawsuits, stop work orders, delays etc. I will go to the mayor's office and personally deliver it to him. You lose federal funding and make Trump your enemy, ok, politics and it becomes the mayor's problem. But you really want to help these people document these guys who take classes, have contracting experience and set up a database and tell the public they are qualified, honest and ready to work. Otherwise this is just talk. Also someone said Trump might green light the Green Line Extension but that could be pulled now.
Or we could get rid of the
Or we could get rid of the protectionist racket that is occupational licensing. Same end result, except more choice (and competition means lower prices) for the consumer!
Elected officials take an oath...
... upon taking office, to uphold ALL laws. Both of them have violated this oath, I'm sure most reasonable people would believe.
People in the country illegally, are already criminals, because they have violated our immigration laws.
About that oath thing
Trump took an oath last Friday, and he's already broken it multiple times. Get some perspective or STFU.
STFU?
OK, time out, guys.
I realize things are a bit tense right now, but come on, try to be civil to each other. Especially to people who go to the extra trouble of getting an account.
Thanks.
im a sociopath
i cant help the way i post
Heh.
"Trump took an oath last Friday, and he's already broken it multiple times. Get some perspective or STFU."
You seem to have a tenuous grasp of the law. What laws has he broken? As some say here, "Citation, please."
Oh, by the way lil buckaroo, Secretary of Defense James Mattis (he can't be made, it's illegal, remember?) says hi...
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/105...
First Wetback
You mean like Melania Trump, right? She violated immigration law by working in the US without a work visa. AP News
So we can start with the First Wetback. Per your definition, she was a criminal when Slovenia hacked her up in New York. Is she still a criminal?
the language is unnecessary.
you could've made that point without the racist slur.
interesting you chose not to.
Uh oh
You've offended the TONE POLICE!
OMG you used some pretty fucking nasty words and some wimpy douche is clutching pearls!
Democracy is under attack and WE MUST USE ONLY NICE WORDS OMG!!!!!!
hey swirly, you feeling okay?
and this is actual general concern, not trolling. because i am pretty sure that nobody has ever accused me of being a wimpy douche before? and while i have been known to have a bit of a potty mouth, and drop an f-bomb or two, i am 100% sure i haven't used racial slurs on this board ever. and there is a huge difference between the two.
p sure
shes just pretending to be what she imagines an average trump supporter to be
if not, well, shame on me for trying to identify somebody's motive
honestly shame on me anyway. who even cares.
Slur?
I'm just saying Trumpski has a soggy mattress.
Operation Wetback
Perhaps Swirly was making a reference to Operation Wetback - yes, what it actually was called by our government. It was an immigrant deportation program back in the 1950s.
Though, to be fair, Melania isn't Mexican. /snark
Different operation
For Trumpski, Operation Wetback means teenage Russian prostitutes and a hotel bed.
You're right.
"You mean like Melania Trump, right? She violated immigration law by working in the US without a work visa."
Yup. According to your own link, she should have waited the seven weeks for her paperwork to clear before she did the jobs. Instead, she jumped the gun a bit.
Doesn't seem like the most major of offenses.
Incorrect
That's wrong. Here is the oath for MA elected officials:
Notice that there is nothing in there about upholding any Federal law.
THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
Making the Metaphorical Popcorn
I'm realizing this is going to come down to a real States vs Feds struggle. We need to do everything we can do to support our state and local governments. Because even if our representatives in Congress can't make much of a difference, our Commonwealth still has power.
So confused.
I thought Republicans were supposed to be pro states rights?
This country is hemorrhaging rationality so fast we're going to bleed out.
I KNOW!
That's why it will be so interesting.
Well, actually...
"I thought Republicans were supposed to be pro states rights?"
The Democrats have a long history of proclaiming the sovereignity of states rights, but as some have been pointing out incessantly the past eight years, that's the path of (to borrow someone's style) TRAITORS and CRAPTASTIK inbreds and stuff.
But, that's all old history.
States rights must be balanced against the Federal obligations under the Constitution. The Federal government is responsible for issues of a national nature like treaties, coinage and immigration.
Research the Tenth Amendment.
"This country is hemorrhaging rationality so fast we're going to bleed out."
As Douglas Adams wrote, "Don't panic."
Burn!
Take that, alternative facts!
Actually...
Walsh swore to support the Constitution of the United States [so help him God]
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5YZ1Ekm_g at 1:15
The Constitution of the United States says that immigration is solely a question for the federal government, not the states (or cities).
">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5YZ1Ekm_g[/youtube]
The Constitution does NOT say
The Constitution does NOT say that the Mayor of Boston must cooperate with the Federal government's immigration policies. Since the Feds have legal control of all the ports of entry, it's their responsibility to prevent the awful threat to our existence that is undocumented immigration. Local official have no legal responsibility to help them.
So he can support it
By leaving it to the federal government, then.
Your next task
Please let us know where any oath of office is prescribed in the state constitution or the city charter. How is it worded, exactly? (look up thread to where somebody posted the boilerplate language)
Not unlike a church wedding with a minister or Rabbi where vows are made, but are not legally binding unless required by the law. Ceremony and legally binding statements can overlap, but they do not always do so.
So Charlie Baker violated his oath
That whole DEP thing - tsk tsk. The one where he tried to liquidate the DEP by declaring that the Commonwealth didn't have to enforce state environmental laws, only Federal standards?
Yeah, that. He got dopesmacked in the courts - maybe he should have been removed from office.
They are not criminals
No they aren't.
For whatever reason, Congress chose not to make it a crime to be here in the country illegally, e.g., by overstaying a tourist visa.
Please understand the criminal laws before making pronouncements about who is and is not violating them.
There goes the Green Line
I applaud Marty and Joe, but you can forget about that billion dollar Federal grant for the Green Line thru Somerville.
the green line is run by....
the STA?
or the MBTA?
The Tenth Amendment
It's the amendment you don't tend to hear about unless you're one of those rightwingers who'd go around claiming it lets states nullify federal laws they don't like.
But it might also bar Trump from withholding money from sanctuary cities.
And the world turned upside down...
Your link (Pittsburg Gazette) cites a case written by Justice Scalia, bane of the liberals...
Will wonders never cease.
You know what?
THIS ISN'T A FOOTBALL GAME WITH OUR TEAM VS THEIR TEAM.
Grow the eff up, please.
legal vs illegal immigration
The Boston metro area is full of legal immigrants who spent many years and jumped through many hoops to maintain their legal status and eventually become permanent residents or citizens. Refusal to enforce immigration laws is a slap in the face for all these people and their effort to follow the rules.
Eh
I wouldn't be so quick to speak for other people like that. Immigration has just as diverse a spectrum of opinions among immigrants as it does among anybody else here.
Source: years of dinner table conversations
No Line for These Folks
The majority of individuals here illegally had no legal path to entering the US. If you are not well educated or do not possess a special skill or are not related to a US citizen and are from Mexico or Central America, there are almost no legal ways to get to the US.
Doesn't make it right, but desperation drives people to do things they know are against the rules.
I do think offering his
I do think offering his office at City Hall is not the best way to go about it. What happens when a family scheduled for a deportation hearing shows up at City Hall and wants sanctuary? Is it really equipped to handle folks who would not be able to go outside again?
Seeing as the 10th Amendment
Seeing as the 10th Amendment and the Constitution give power and roles to the State and the cities in question are chartered to the State (not the federal government) someone should really ask Mr. Charlie Baker what he thinks about de-funding these cities and towns (and others like them) and if which side he would take. Keep in mind he recently used the policies from the City of Chelsea for a template for his own policies with the State Police. Chelsea is a Sanctuary City. He also took some info from Boston and Somerville.
People let Governor Baker off of the hook way too easily. He needs to come out with a statement on this. Enough with this standing on the fence routine. The Constitutional protection for these cities runs right through his office, it is imperative that he have a policy one way or another on this.
Do not read this as a pro Trump comment, I am against his Executive Order, I just think that our Governor should form a backbone and declare a stance one way or another.
Go Mahty
We don't need their stinking money. Just raise out real estate taxes, raise parking fees, lower the speed limit and issue more tickets. We have GE behind us.
City Hall as Sanctuary?
That's cruel and unusual punishment.!!