Stroller, van and car at the scene. Photo by Eileen Murphy.
Update: Victim identified as Colin Thomas McGrath, 2, of South Boston..
WBZ reports two young children in a stroller were hit by a vehicle in a crash at L and East 6th streets around 3:40 this afternoon.
One child, 2, died. The second, 4, was injured, but survived.
The BPD homicide and fatal-accident teams are investigating whether the driver of a van heading north on L hit a Hyundai whose driver may have ignored a stop sign on East 6th eastbound - sending the van onto the sidewalk on front of the Foley Apartments and hitting a woman and the two children.
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Correction from WBZ: the 3
By MattyC
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 4:59pm
Correction from WBZ: the 3 year old, a boy, passed away, and the 4 year old survived.
https://twitter.com/wbz/status/1022217921307836416
Also, I live in that neighborhood and people treat the number streets like a fucking drag strip and its driving me fucking crazy. I have a 4 year old. She more than likely knows the kids who were hit, even if I don't. I am so mad and I have no idea what to do about it.
Fixed, thanks
By adamg
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 5:18pm
And I'm so sorry.
not surprised.
By formerlyTheSoBo...
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 8:28am
i am very angry to say... i am not surprised by this at all. i posted a while back that with all the young kids in the neighborhood and people speeding through almost every street in southie that a child is going to get seriously injured or die soon.
WTF. this is bullshit. a 3 year old dies walking on a side-walk in a residential neighborhood?!?
these fukin elected leaders need to do something. Come up with a specific plans with fukin details!! not just, 'i believe in safe streets' or 'i will invest to make neighborhoods more family friendy'...when campaigning.
Prayers to the family. May your little one look over our neighborhood forever.
Except
By bosguy22
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 10:34am
The police said speed was not a factor.
forgot to include
By formerlyTheSoBo...
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 10:42am
blowing stop signs.
Sadly not surprising
By anonamizzle
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 10:36am
This is obviously tragic, but can we discuss the irony of people in Southie suddenly crying for enforcement of laws? The neighborhood where people insist that parking illegally is allowed if the driver is a cop/firefighter/nurse/city hall employee who's "gotta get to work"? Where people regularly talk about how they get traffic tickets and code enforcement "taken care of"? Where the standard method of finding a parking space downtown is taking a ticket book from a police officer relative and setting it on your dashboard? Where it's fine to double park and block strangers in because someone in your family is young/old/lives on the street?
Maybe if you want people to behave responsibly in your neighborhood, try it yourself?
Tragic, but not surprising
By zetag
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 5:20pm
When drivers know that there is about a 0.000001% chance of getting a traffic violation in this city then there is no incentive to follow the rules. You could sit at any crosswalk on Broadway for less than 15 min and catch 10 cars ignoring pedestrians in crosswalks and another 10 speeding. Stop signs are simply suggestions and a red light means 1-3 more cars through. The city could be making money hand over fist by enforcing the rules already in place while making the city safer for everybody, I'm really not sure why they don't.
According to the Globe they
By Kinopio
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 5:38pm
According to the Globe they were at least 10 officers at the scene after the driver killed the kid. Where were these officers beforehand? Why do they only show up after drivers kill people? Haven't they thought of trying to prevent deaths?!? I have never seen or heard of a driver getting a ticket for speeding, failure to yield, etc in the city of Boston despite the fact that drivers are obviously breaking the laws every minute of every day. Cops do not care and the result is criminal drivers killing pedestrians and cyclists.
Well
By anon²
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 6:05pm
The City of Boston PD only uses traffic stops in the worst neighborhoods as a means to go after criminals, but not specifically targeted for traffic violations.
Go to other neighboorhoods and they just dont enforce traffic laws, they leave it up to BTD or ignore it as much as possible.
Broadway, L street, and Day Blvd are death traps. Its nice that Marty proclaimed the speed limit in the city was going down and all; but its useless without enforcment and BTD changing the design of these almost parkways.
Amen
By Jimbog
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 6:39pm
They can lower the speed limit to 5 mph but if there’s no enforcement, no one cares. The BPD NEED TO DO THEIR JOB!!!!
Not really
By Stevil
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 7:50pm
I've seen cops on Comm Ave several times lately giving speeding tickets. Talked w our community services officer and this is a direct response to community requests after some of the insanity on Beacon Street the last couple of years.
Squeaky wheels get the grease. If this is an ongoing problem keep bringing it up w your community services officer and don't take not enough resources as an answer.
So...
By Jimbog
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 11:15pm
It’s my responsibility to tell the cops to do their job? They know where there are problems.
If they don't know
By anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:02am
They can ask DOT to give them anonymized crash reports.
Such a tragedy. That poor
By anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:25am
Such a tragedy. That poor family.
I'm glad the squeky wheels thing worked for you. I tried that with District E-5 regarding Holy Name Rotary or "Death Rotary" as I like to call it. You take your life into your own hands each and every time you cross it.
I complained for years to the police station (captain) as well as the Mayor's office (Menino at the time) and I got nothing except for "Parkway's are run by the state police." No one from the state ever responded. Well how about you all just work together before someone gets killed?
I've almost gotten hit there (too many times to count), as well as my husband and dog. I will stand there and wave my arms like a nut and cars just fly by me. I once had someone cut me off with a cop behind them ...cop did nothing. I had a cop cut me off in that rotary....literally speed up to cut me off and then he pulled over 10 feet later to talk to someone.
If we need $ so badly I really don't understand why they aren't putting a cop or a statie out there each and every day.
But that goes for the whole city...fine ppl for blocking the box, speeding, flying through stop signs, driving like dicks, etc.
IMO it all goes back to cars being king and pedestrians and bikers don't matter.
I've been through that rotary 300 times in the last 3 months.
By Pete Nice
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:55am
I've seen one woman stand on the Rectory side of W. Roxbury Parkway and when I stopped she just continued to look at her phone. I honked and she waved me through.
There is no money to be made at that intersection because there really aren't that many accidents or violations compared to other areas.
Respectfully...
By Manny
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 11:33am
...disagree. I walk through that rotary every day and *usually* 4-5 cars will fly by me while I am clearly standing in the crosswalk at the edge of the sidewalk before a car will stop. It is the cars coming off the rotary at a high speed that consistently do not stop and just keep going. I have been in middle of the crosswalk crossing Center St on the Holy Name Side and have been almost hit (jumping out of the way,car slamming brakes,close calls) 3 times. That rotary is scary as a pedestrian.
I'm there frequently as I
By anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 11:47am
I'm there frequently as I live quite close and it happens to me and any other pedestrian every.single.time.
There are plenty of violations - it's just that no one who can do anything about it is there to see them (other than the pedestrians and motorists). And as my examples above stated if there is they don't do anything.
The Rectory side is the "safe" side...sort of.
No the rectory side is the most dangerous side....
By Pete Nice
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 12:08pm
Well there are very few accidents at that rotary anyway, but coming from the rectory across the parkway is the most dangerous because of the cars coming from the Roslindale side of the parkway. And if you put a radar gun on those cars would would find that 95% of them are below the speed limit because even 30 feet per second looks fast but is well below the established speed limit.
The problem with enforcing it there is that the person has to be in the crosswalk in order to issue a citation, and pedestrians don't even enter unless they have a good visual check of no cars coming around that rotary. Kind of a catch 22.
I find the crossing the
By anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 2:32pm
I find the crossing the "dentist" side to holy name far worse. I also find crossing to/fr the police station (on the parkway) horrible as well.
I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest :) The whole rotary sux and is not pedestrian friendly - even if there are cross walks.
I am not a professional in traffic control but I would think if the put a cop car out there everyday for a few weeks that might make people slow down and actually stop but to do nothing is not great either. Maybe some of those big yellow pedestrian signs would help.
Boston has never been pedestrian friendly and I am sure there are areas that are far worse.
this wasn't an "individual" complaint
By Stevil
Sun, 07/29/2018 - 10:40am
It was the neighborhood group. Politicians know that people active in the community vote and they come with strength in numbers. Try that route - it might be more effective.
Couldn't agree more
By Bart
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 5:39pm
The lack of traffic enforcement in Boston is ahuge problem. Traffic would move better if people followed the laws. But why? There's no penalty.
Incredibly sad about the accident today. My heart goes out to this family.
fatal crash in South Boston
By Joshua P. Cohen
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 6:05pm
Completely agree. The Boston police do next to nothing to enforce existing traffic laws. The only way to curb these fatalities (pedestrians and bicyclists) is to install traffic camera's at every intersection, and just like in Europe levy hefty fines (real fines, not the joke fines we now have; so fines of over $300 for any red light or stop sign infraction) on violators, with 3-year suspensions of licenses for repeat (3x) offenders. When someone speeds and goes through a red light or stop sign that is reckless endangerment, as far as I'm concerned. At that point, the operator of the motor vehicle might as well be wielding a weapon. And then there are the idiots who knowingly drive against traffic on one-way streets. Happens in my neighborhood all the time, because people want to `save time' to get onto Storrow Drive. Police do nothing about it, even if they're sitting in their cruisers and see the person driving in the wrong direction.
Yes, Cameras
By BostonDog
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 7:26am
Nothing else works like cameras. Massachusetts already uses them exclusively at all toll roads. It's time to start bringing them to the city. It's the only thing which will get people to start driving at safe speeds in the city.
Constitutional Amendment
By anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 8:56am
Massachusetts Supreme Court has decided that traffic cameras violate the state constitution.
That is what you are up against.
Change the constitution and we are in business.
Oh
By BostonDog
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:38am
So why it OK on the Pike? Don't pay your car's toll (irrespective of driver) and the car's owner can face criminal charges.
If they need to re-work the classification for speeding when detected by traffic cameras to consider it a "fee", so be it.
Are there different laws
By lurchie
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:45am
for federal highways that would be exempt from state law?
I think the highway ones are
By Rob
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 10:02am
I think the highway ones are used for things like monitoring for crashes and dispatching tow trucks - not enforcement.
False
By frobot
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 11:43am
It's a toll that every single vehicle is required to pay. It has nothing to do with enforcement of traffic laws.
This is false. You will have trouble renewing your registration if you don't pay your toll bills, but you will not be charged criminally. If you refuse to pay your toll bill and drive with an expired registration, THEN you could face more serious punishment.
Got a cite for that?
By Steve Brady
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:45am
Got a cite for that?
Traffic enforcement by camera in MA is not legal
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 12:16pm
https://www.motorists.org/do-we-have-red-light-cam...
I'm trying to find the specific decision, but the bottom line is that you have to be able to face your accuser. Electronic accusers don't count, and toll collection is a different situation than a traffic ticket.
I bet if an actual officer wrote it.....
By Pete Nice
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 12:24pm
They would hold up in court.
Citations are issued in crashes often where cameras show violations and other info such as license plates, vehicle info, etc.
The issue is with proving who is driving the car and that can get messy.
Electronic Tolling is Different
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 12:27pm
Electronic tolling is different because it doesn't matter who is driving - the toll is a charge for the vehicle, not a charge for the driver.
Holy crap
By Will LaTulippe
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 5:44pm
I got hit at what I believe is that very same intersection after the AFC title game in 2015, for the very same reason that I was traveling south on L, and got hit by somebody who ran a stop sign eastbound on a numbered cross street.
Driver took off, unfortunately for the piece of (expletive), they threw their front plate on impact. Insurance collected.
My heart breaks
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 6:19pm
I know that among the parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, and neighbors of that beloved, infinitely precious child, some of you are going to find your way to this thread. Please know that our hearts break for you.
Thank you
By Louise
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 10:53am
Thank you for thinking about us. It’s the worst thing imaginable
People in Boston just-don’t
By Republican
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 6:21pm
People in Boston just-don’t-care.. nothing is more important to a flustered Boston motorist than flooring it to their destination. Honking at other motorists in your way or running stop signs and not caring who you may hit is totally normal. Very scary. Please regard the lives of others especially children.
Southie
By Bugs Bunny
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 6:41pm
That part of town I have to creep
Through every intersection, there’s cars parked all the way to the street corner so line of vision is blocked, it’s not safe to go above 15-20 mph. Such a tragedy.
Road is too tight
By Goosen
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 6:46pm
With parking on both sides that road is way too toght for that volume and speed of traffic. Not the first time one car has hit another head on in this spot. Need to remove parking on one side and add bike lanes
A 3 year old boy died. Not a
By anon
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 7:07pm
A 3 year old boy died. Not a cyclist. Have some respect, please.
A 3 year old was murdered, he
By anon
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 8:04pm
A 3 year old was murdered, he didn't just 'die.' Show some respect.
Why was this suggestion disrespectful?
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 8:46pm
It may not be how a traffic engineer would see things, but I think the point is that it is a very dangerous area made dangerous by both the road configuration and the behavior of drivers.
And that something should be done about those hazards.
Talking about problems and possible solutions is the ultimate RESPECT for those who are lost - it means caring about your neighbors and solving problems so these horrible events don't happen over and over and over instead of acting like they got hit by lightning or claiming that nothing can be done.
I hate to be that guy
By Waquiot
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 10:53pm
But at least in the case of L Street, having parking on both sides does help slow traffic down. It narrows the street, which does make drivers slow down, by and large. It's a psychological thing, like sidewalk trees. Sixth Street I cannot comment on, as I've never driven on it, but since it is the same width, the only thing that keeps traffic going fast might be a lack of traffic.
I don't see bike lanes preventing this tragedy, so I do kind of agree with the person calling the suggestion out in terms of this event (as opposed to overall, which is a different conversation.)
Don't know if bike lanes would work
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 11:28pm
Agreed. At this point, I'd turn my son loose on it for suggestions. He's the professional.
But the idea that identifying problems and positing solutions is disrespectful is, honestly, bullshit. And that was what the poster was trying to do - identify the problems and fix them - even if such things are typically carried out through more formal audit processes.
Yes
By cybah
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 9:55pm
While I agree with your statement to a degree, I can't help but think something similar.
This is an area that had a bus lane proposed and people came out in droves because you know cars and parking were at stake. I'm not saying a bus lane would have prevented this but my main point is the minute you try to change anything about the traffic patterns, parking, speed, etc... its met with opposition because you know
but cars
but parking
Maybe if we weren't so car-centric and things like bike & bus lanes, speed tables, and pedestrian only areas wouldn't be met with so much opposition, we wouldn't have big long speedways of streets that encourage high speeds, when combined with limited enforcement.
Im not trying to detract from what happened.. its horrible... but ya know.. we want change but the minute you do, its met with opposition. Maybe we need to change our thinking, that's all.
It's time the city starts
By anon
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 10:12pm
It's time the city starts taking pedestrian safety into consideration. No one should die or be injured or feel unsafe while walking on sidewalks because people on wheels feel entitled to speed through our city streets and disregard stop signs and crosswalks.
Dead children is the result
By Kinopio
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:40am
Dead children is the result when you plan a city based on cars and their selfish drivers. It is time to tell them to shut up. They had their chance and they blew it by brutally killing people. Take away their parking and put in bus lanes. Take away their multiple driving lanes and use it to widen sidewalks. Turn streets with heavy foot traffic into pedestrian only zones. The opinions of these killer drivers and their enablers should not matter, because they drive like lives of pedestrians don't matter.
Exactly
By anonamizzle
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 10:52am
I don't get why the suggestion that this area is car-centric was disrespectful.
I bike most everywhere. I also own a car. I am not a car-hater. What I do know though is that cars can kill people not in the car much more easily than biking or walking kills others. (And yeah, I know, you can google and find those once-in-a-blue-moon freak accidents where a cyclist killed a pedestrian. Spare me.)
The teens and tweens in my family bike on their own, and my little kids ride on a bike with one of us.
I have been making 311 app complaints pretty much every day about cars/cop cars/mail trucks/delivery trucks/construction vehicles parked in bike lanes for non-emergency reasons. They respond and either say it was clear when they got there 12 hours later, or that they ticketed X number of vehicles 12 hours later. They don't respond to my mentions that state law allows them to mail a ticket based on a photo of the parking infraction, nor my suggestions that they follow up with the police departments (Northeastern University Police especially), the postal service, or the other companies that routinely use the bike lanes as a free parking lot. They also don't provide regular enforcement unless a 311 complaint is made. They do, however, respond with such helpful information as "parking enforcement does not occur in this neighborhood on weekends -- call police if needed." Yeah, we know it doesn't, as do the people who use the bike lanes for free weekend parking, like the church on Seaver Street.
On my regular routes, I count bike lane violators. I play a game where I assume that I'd write each one a $25 ticket, and it would take me five minutes to stop and do so. I find that I would be generating several hundred dollars of revenue for the city per hour. They could very easily pay me a very nice middle-class salary and still have plenty left over. Hire a dozen or so people to do this, and people would pretty quickly stop parking in bike lanes.
This is just one specific example of how a total lack of enforcement is going to get some kids killed one of these days. Kids shouldn't have to be regularly pulling out into traffic around police cruisers parked in the bike lane while the officer goes and gets dinner. Kids who are quite able to ride safely under normal conditions don't yet have the spatial skills to rapidly scan around and assess how fast oncoming traffic is coming, which is why we as their parents plan travel routes for them that use bike lanes.
But no, this city isn't remotely concerned with pedestrian or bike safety.
Was one sided parking today
By Melissa
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 10:32pm
Today was street cleaning, parking was only on the opposite side of the road. This side was clear, hence how the van maneuvered up onto the sidewalk. A family Is experiencing the worst tragedy possible and this is all about bike lanes to some people. If it had been a bike lane, then a cyclist would be dead as well.
No parking on one side today - worsened crash
By anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 12:02am
Officials noted that it was street sweeping day today, so no parked cars were protecting the sidewalk where the victims were.
You have heard of "protected bike lanes"? Yeah, parked cars protect sidewalks too. They would have absorbed some of the energy from the van and possibly reduced injury or even deflected the van down the street instead of on the sidewalk. The curb helps keep parked cars from being pushed into the sidewalk.
You don't seem to understand how traffic calming works - roads and lanes are made narrow to slow drivers. Open them up with space, and speeds increase.
Widen the sidewalk and line
By Kinopio
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:43am
Widen the sidewalk and line it with bollards and trees. Problem solved. Lives saved. Lazy drivers who don't care about the lives of pedestrians who then flip out over lost parking spots is a bonus.
"People in Boston just-don’t"
By Luke Warm
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 6:54pm
It is very unfortunate that the other poster is correct. I don't know if Boston somehow breeds psychopathy in motorists, or if for some reason the narrow streets of this town just cause your average psychotic motorist to express their traits in a more obvious way.
You see the psychotic behavior every single day all day on every street over and over again. But this tragedy, which seems so likely, is not less horrible just because it is predictable.
most of the psycho drivers are from the burbs...
By formerlyTheSoBo...
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 8:38am
...not Boston.
Evidence?
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:34am
You have anything to back that up? Either way?
And if they are, how does it matter? They will be the ones getting tickets and shifting routes if enforcement is stepped up and traffic calming is installed.
Nope
By Anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 1:57pm
People from Southie are just as bad. They ignore stop signs all the time because they “know” the streets. It happens almost every time I drive on the side streets. I avoid Southie for so many reasons.
RIP young soul
By anon
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 8:57pm
And condolences to loved ones.
The Rush To Judgment
By Oscar Worthy
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 9:12pm
The cause of this horrible tragedy is still under investigation. Do you think that people here can just cool it a little before the manic rush to implicate the drivers, the police, drivers in general, inadequate public safety funding, etc. etc.? The facts will come out.
Rather than real concern for the loss of the victims and their loved ones, it can come across as simply using this tragedy as a cue to throw gasoline on the fire or grind ones own personal axes. Which is its own form of disrespect at a time like this.
No. There is no logical
By Republican
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 10:08pm
No. There is no logical reason to think this tragedy could have happened if the motorists were driving responsibly. Someone messed up and needs to be held accountable.
One problem
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 10:16pm
There are plenty of data available that indicate that:
1. the problems being identified here ARE PROBLEMS
2. the problems being identified here RESULT IN FATALITIES.
So, go ahead and play the "oh gee golly whiz bang don't know blah NO FAAIR" game all you fucking want - the problems are known, the solutions are valid, and NOTHING IS CHANGING.
Even if the named and known issues turn out to not be the issue here (doubtful), there are still problems that aren't being solved that need to be solved before more people are inevitably killed.
http://www.visionzeroboston.org/focusing
Actually, Oscar Worthy is
By Rob
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 11:13pm
Actually, Oscar Worthy is right.
Yes, Swirls, you're talking about problems that do exist and can result in fatalities, but you don't actually know if they have anything to do with this situation (I'd suspect they do, but you have to keep a grip on the gap between your suspicions and facts not yet established).
The facts of the matter are slowly coming out. Early on all we had in the realm of facts was that this woman and her children were on a sidewalk when hit by a car (and one of them killed) - NOT what caused it. Now we have that the police are investigating some particular scenario - which might end up getting confirmed as the cause.
This one-note, "because cars..." kvetching doesn't do anything to help the situation.
It IS because of drivers
By anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:10am
You are not going to weasel your way out of that.
DRIVERS KILL. Period. Cyclists don't kill very often, if at all. Statistical blip. DRIVERS KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE.
Repeat: DRIVERS KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE. DRIVERS ARE THE PROBLEM. DRIVERS KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE. DRIVERS ARE THE PROBLEM. DRIVERS KILL ... etc.
Actually holding drivers responsible is the solution.
By cinnamngrl
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 10:06am
If you look at the big picture, drivers are murdering people every day. In 2015 from https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 36,161
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.3
How about we just stop calling it an accident? What is worse is that no one is willing to see that this is about money. If people took their responsibility seriously they would drive less.
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/04/inv...
Automatic governors are totally feasible
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 10:34am
My 2016 Subaru knows what the speed limit is on most streets. It displays on the GPS map. The only time it is off is when limits have been recently lowered.
The same car has several automatic features for braking and cruise control and other "eyesight" functions. If I'm in cruise mode, it limits the speed according to a preset following distance to the car in front - meaning that if I have the cruise set for 65 and a car in front of me is doing 60, I will also do 60mph.
It is entirely possible to build a car and a system where the car senses the speed limit from either a GPS file or a sensor on or near the road (could be an eyesight code in the paint on the road) and limits the car to that speed. This could be tested now with current technologies in places like school zones. Now.
A lot more sophisticated than a top limit governor is! And completely possible in current technology vehicles.
Yeah, please let's not blame
By MattyC
Wed, 07/25/2018 - 11:01pm
Yeah, please let's not blame the drivers. Particularly the one who killed a baby. They had a really important thing and were totally paying attention and by the way fuck you.
I don't know all the particulars
By anon
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:01am
and I'm betting you don't either. I feel horrible for the parents, family and friends of this child. My condolences to them. I was in a car accident once where we were hit by someone who had a heart attack while driving. You never know what the circumstances may be. No matter how this happened, it's a terrible tragedy.
He probably knows quite a bit
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 07/26/2018 - 9:37am
As he lives in the neighborhood and has children that age.
Also, people only rarely "just have a heart attack" - they often have clinically evident symptoms of cardiovascular disease for years before that. Which is why I think drivers - including me - should have to present evidence of having had a recent physical to renew a license.
I'm all for providing proof
By RoseMai
Thu, 08/02/2018 - 11:44am
I'm all for providing proof that you can still see, and are cognitively with it enough to drive.
But considering the state of the American people (2/3 of us are overweight... diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, as a people we're not beacons of health), if we ruled out people that might have a heart attack/stroke/seizure/whatever someday, there'd be basically no one left on the road.
Which would be my ideal world actually, if the US had much, much better and more public transportation.
To be fair
By cinnamngrl
Fri, 07/27/2018 - 9:50am
That scenario is ridiculously unlikely. By the way, do you mean to say that people with serious health problems are unaware? How is this different than driving while intoxicated or sleep deprived? Again you refuse to hold the driver responsible for controlling the car. If we could admit that driving requires responsibility for the consequences, instead of treating it as the addictive compulsion that fuels capitalism then there would be less death.
also
By cinnamngrl
Fri, 07/27/2018 - 9:51am
People were much healthier when they walked a few miles every day.
I wasn't disagreeing with
By RoseMai
Thu, 08/02/2018 - 11:46am
I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said... I actually agree with all your points.
That isn't the point
By SwirlyGrrl
Fri, 07/27/2018 - 10:28am
The point of making people get a doc's note to renew their license is to get people to see their doctor and get treatment for medical conditions that are clinically evident but still benign. It can also get those who refuse to take care of their health to do so if they want to keep their license (e.g. not deny that they have type II diabetes).
For example, my mother had malignant hypertension for years but did not get treatment for it until she could no longer deny it. The small strokes she had as a result accumulated, and she was also at risk of having a stroke behind the wheel. That's an example of a big problem that started with a small problem that is treatable.
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