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Somebody at the Globe seems to really like J.K. Rowling and Ron DeSantis
By adamg on Sat, 08/03/2024 - 11:14pm
Alejandra Caraballo noticed the odd headline in the Globe paper edition on Friday:
Transgender boxer advances
Which was, of course, about the Algerian woman boxer that transphobes like J.K. Rowling, Elon Musk and failed presidential candidate Ron DeSantis just know is really a man even though they're wrong.
The Globe apologized for the headline today, although without saying how it happened, how it plans to keep it from happening again:
A significant error was made in a headline on a story in Friday’s print sports section about Algerian boxer Imane Khelif incorrectly describing her as transgender. She is not. Additionally, our initial correction of this error neglected to note that she was born female. We recognize the magnitude of this mistake and have corrected it in the epaper, the electronic version of the printed Globe. This editing lapse is regretful and unacceptable and we apologize to Khelif, to Associated Press writer Greg Beacham, and to you, our readers.
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Comments
Isn't this a bit more
Isn't this a bit more strongly worded than the typical Globe correction? "This editing lapse is regretful and unacceptable and we apologize to Khelif, to Associated Press writer Greg Beacham, and to you, our readers."
there’s nothing strange
let alone nefarious about the Globe’s awareness of the cultural impact around transgender issues in today’s climate
I'm sure lawyers were involved
As they should be.
Calling Khelif "transgender" in print is libel as it could result in her death by right wing whack jobs or just a gang of assholes.
There is a real price for this - and I hope that lawsuits were threatened because this wasn't an editing lapse - this was a full-on ignorance at the very least.
Inexcusable
I feel for the two women boxers who are having to deal with these false accusations and hatred.
Be neutral on this issue
We don't know what the full story is. There's no transparency, only ideological positions. The Globe takes ideological positions, if you didn't know.
What were the International Boxing Association tests, how trustworthy were they and what were the results?
What are the International Olympic Committee standards, if any, and how are they verified?
Is it an XX vs XY chromosome and intersex issue which gives her advantages, as has been stated from the IBA?
Personally, I would let her compete if that were the case. Women boxing is savagery in any event, might as well increase the savagery to deter girls from entering the sport.
I feel bad for everyone involved, including Imane and the other boxers. Praying for them all.
It does not appear to be a case of overweening narcissism like that of the swimmer Lia Thomas.
why do i need to be neutral?
i was told the difference between a man and a woman is readily apparent. common sense, they said.
because who knows?
I've read there can be apparent significant differences. As I said, I would let her compete if an XY intersex. She's been beaten before.
If I were an XX boxer at the Olympics I might feel differently.
But She Isn't
But she simply isn't XY.
That is a lie you were told, and swallowed whole.
You are now here trying to reach conclusions based on bigoted assumptions - and nobody is here for it but you.
Grow the fuck up, kid. Misgendering someone else for your lols is not the flex you think it is.
How do you know?
Do you know her? Have you conducted tests and examinations?
Otherwise please provide a reference for your statement. Otherwise I assume you make things up for ideological reasons.
Why are you blathering on about this, counselor?
All you know is a bunch of untrustworthy ideologues found another innocent person to subject to a 2 minutes hate in order to advance their ongoing campaign of hatred, which the Globe stupidly amplified. Now you're jumping in based on hearsay to thoughtfully scratch your chin and call for "tests and examinations" of genitals. Hmmm... perhaps you are ALSO an ideologue? Nah... couldn't be.
But where are the "tests and examinations" documented by the people instigating this dangerous trans-panic?
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/boxing/olympics-imane-khelif-a...
Oh they're aren't any.
This could be cleared up by now
The IOC's standards aren't clear and they don't require testing anymore.
It would be pretty easy to conduct tests on all of the women boxers. Paris has the most advanced labs.
The physiognomy and power of these two boxers is obvious. They've defeated other boxers who have qualified through their own national and regional boxing federations in qualifying bouts in SECONDS.
Also, applying Occam's Razor, why make an accusation which could be easily disproved if there was transparency? What would be the motive to make this up, and why would women boxers refuse to fight them for a chance at an Olympic medal? What's the simplest explanation for the controversy?
Again, I say let them fight in any event, but there should be transparency. Some boxers might not want to risk the fate of Maggie in Million Dollar Baby. This is a safety issue.
So Your Mask Comes Off
Why do you keep doing this "just asking question" bit? Occam's Razor, why do you keep jumping in in favor of an unsourced hate campaign clearly being run by people like JK Rowling with longstanding axes to grind?
If you bothered to read the article I linked to, you'll see Khelif has a boxing record 37-9. That seems like a pretty non-exciting record for a world-class olympic boxer, especially someone you claim has the OBVIOUS "physiognomy and power" you mention. In your fantastic framing, she only could have lost to 9 other boxers with MORE OBVIOUS physiognomy and power.
Legit, we don't know
Which is why I'm in a position of equanimity.
Women (and perhaps men) shouldn't be boxing anyways, and it's ok for me if XY women fight XX women because it could drive XX women out of that sport.
But I understand the objections of XX boxers if being XY gives you significant physical advantages.
They misguidedly devoted their lives to this Olympic quest, only to be confronted in the last days with possible chromosomally anomalous opponents.
a position of equanimity
A a position of equanimity?
"Women (and perhaps men) shouldn't be boxing anyways..."
That doesn't sound like a very balanced statement.
As other posters have been trying to tell you, the only source that she might possibly be anything other than fully female is a discredited Russian boxing "authority" (the IBA, who were stripped of any recognition by the IOC) who refused to reveal anything about how they came to the conclusion that she did not meet there eligibility requirements. So, at this point, any conclusion one might draw from that would be base speculation at best.
mike 'bison' vs. peter 'medfield' mcneeley ?
How do _you_ know that any
How do _you_ know that any other random woman competing in the Olympics is female enough to meet your standards? They haven't been tested either--but suddenly when a non-white woman is winning competitions and medals, the haters come out and say she doesn't meet their standard of femininity.
There is exactly no evidence for your claims, and there is evidence that this came from a Russian sports organization that isn't recognized internationally.
I have trans friends who you would look at and automatically label as female, and cis friends who are worried that some bully will make them the next target of gender policing. It's not as though most people, of any gender, carry around their birth certificates.
the IBA
Has been BANNED from the international Olympic movement.
For reasons. They are just some group of gyms, mostly in eastern europe, and tied deeply to organized crime.
They are the fox in the henhouse, not the guard dog.
IBA not only source
the Vice President of the World Boxing Association also said the tests were XY
The IOC is also not free of corruption, has been an issue for years.
The IOC could also clear this up in an hour.
You got a source for that?
I'm not finding any recent news articles that cite any statements by WBA Vice President Renzo Bagnariol.
Or did you mean the organization World Boxing, in which case, not finding the same for World Boxing VP Ryan O’Shea
correction -World Boxing Organization VP
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1147391/vp-ioc-warned-about-male...
A Hungarian sports official, Istvan Kovacs, has claimed Algerian boxer Imane Khelif is not female. The European vice president of the World Boxing Organisation said he alerted the IOC about alleged male participation in women’s boxing in 2022, but no action was taken.
In an interview with Magyar Nemzet, Kovacs confirmed speculation that Khelif was biologically male, noting that gender tests revealed this. He said, “The problem was not with the level of Khelif’s testosterone, because that can be adjusted nowadays, but with the result of the gender test, which clearly revealed that the Algerian boxer is biologically male.”
Kovacs also mentioned that five boxers, including Khelif, were tested by the International Boxing Association and all were found to be male. He reported these results to the IOC but claimed he has yet to receive a response. The Hungarian official expressed concerns about Hungarian boxer Anna Luca Hamori's upcoming match against Khelif, stating that Hamori “was simply not trained for this” and emphasised the risk she faces.
The last few years have seen a long breakdown of relations between the International Boxing Association (IBA) and the International Olympic Committee (IOC) which last June resulted in the Olympic organisers stripping the IBA of recognition. In April, a breakaway body, World Boxing, was then launched with Dutch federation head Boris van der Vorst elected as its first president.
He's also an IBA official
Wikipedia: "In March 2021, Kovács was appointed as a secretary general of AIBA under its new president, Umar Kremlev." (He's the Putin pal who disqualified her days after she beat a Russian boxer.)
He cites the IBA's undisclosed tests, no second source.
This isn't the "independent viewpoint" flex you were looking for, and took almost no time to check.
Go fuck your hating asshole self
KHELIF IS A WOMAN. FULL. FUCKING. STOP.
If this is an unfair advantage, are we going to have height tests now? Tests for oxygen usage?
NEARLY EVERY OLYMPIAN IS A FREAK OF NATURE IN SOME WAY THAT GIVES THEM A STRONG ADVANTAGE. Where do we draw the line pedophile boy?
I'm so sick of your bullshit. This is bullshit hate that kills. Go fuck yourself with a hand blender. Maybe that will cure you of your unnatural and weird obsession with other people's bodies, particularly children.
Get help
This is an internet discussion board, not Primal Scream Therapy.
Learn to accept that some people disagree with you. It's healthier. I'm serious.
Asking the impossible
Some of the overly frequent responders here are incapable of having a civil constructive conversation and always resort to insults and claims that everyone except them have mental illness if you don't agree with them. It has become predictable and expected. This post will prove it.
So...
...THAT was your takeaway? That's all that you took away from this sea lion's disingenuous "I am just asking" bullshit?
Learn to accept that some
Yeah. Some people disagree with me: they think that Black people should be enslaved. I don’t. Some think that Jews/gay people/frans people should be rounded up and slaughtered . I don’t.
Don’t lecture me about accepting “disagreement” Fuck that moral equivalence bullshit. I
Kinda funny though
This discussion is about none of the things you listed.
We're discussing a public controversy in sports which is both complicated and obscured. Nobody's getting slaughtered or enslaved.
I say "I'm neutral, think that she [Imane] should be able to box, feel bad for everyone involved, I'm praying for everyone."
Her:
Gives a new meaning to "hate" and "anti-hate"
Flipping out like that is indicative of . . . something.
The amount of caustic abuse she and her twin sister lbb throw out is amazing. Normally would ignore, but that was "over the top."
We're discussing a public
Catapulting the propaganda of a banned, corrupt, Russian sports organization who found a pretext to damage a boxer retroactively after she defeated a Russian athlete is not “discussing a public controversy,” it is creating one.
not the only one the IBA banned
There is also the Taiwan boxer, Lin. It appears the IOC doesn't test at all. If it did, there would be no questions.
It's a category issue about the category "women's." Analogous to having the weight categories in boxing but then not weighing the boxers.
Even if you wholly discount the IBA allegation (because anything any Russian does is fake and bad), there have been the reactions and complaints of the other women boxers.
Seems like people here forgot that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
I feel bad because being born without ovaries but with internal testicles and ambiguous external genitalia is not ideal and you want them to succeed and overcome and be happy.
But if it results in increased musculature and punching power, not defining the category "women's" is not just supporting the possibly XY individuals, but saying "fuck you" to the XX individuals who are now disabled by their sex.
It's amazing that in adopting the "correct" position towards a small minority, people can be callous towards a much larger category.
"Internal Testicles"
You really like fantasizing, unprompted, about random people's sex organs, don't you? You a pizza gate guy too, counselor?
Sorry it upsets you.
It's in the background information of this controversy.
As usual, you can't engage in substantive discussion.
I recommend this piece which is the most thorough explanation of what happened.
https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/3/0d4ucn50bmvbndhhqjohanecco...?
I did a control-f
Nothing about "internal testicles", counselor.
Hey, whatever floats your boat in the privacy of your own home! But please, keep your fantasies to yourself from now on, I'm begging you.
for your further edification
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/olympic-boxer-imane-khelif-gender-contro...
I'm embarassed for you.
Doing a lot of digging to justify your bizarre comments, aren't you? Just admit your kink and move on. Sheesh.
all my kinks are ironed out
at 77 years old
Welp
Maybe it's time to accept that your high school biology classes are a bit outdated, pappy.
Learn to accept that some
You are entitled to your own opinion.
You are not entitled to your own facts.
So go fuck yourself sideways.
Boston Globe has a deep
Boston Globe has a deep history of misleading if not outright lies headlines, like then they called "peaceful dismantling of Mass. and Cass a model for tackling homelessness"
Are you disputing statements they attributed?
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/11/02/metro/mass-cass-mayor-wu-boston/
It looks like a paraphrase rather than a direct quotation but I know of no definition of "lie" that involves publishing the statements of a public official that appear to be made in good faith.
Disputing, as in facts and
Disputing, as in facts and reality?
Yeah so
it's probably not worth my while tonight describing the differences between objective and subjective statements to someone who doesn't care. People can make either and journalists can report on either.
If "facts and reality" disagree with reported statements that the mayor made, the issue does not lie with the journalist that reported the statements but rather the person who made those statements. Which were, of course, made at a distinct point in time that may be separated from today. But hey, when you want to be disingenuous, the last thing you want is nuance to come into play.
You may begin with "peaceful"
You may begin with "peaceful"
The Glob got it very wrong
As usual.
Nobody has alleged that Khelif is transgender.
The allegations - coming from the head of the IBA, as well as the European vice president of the World Boxing Organization - are that Khelif was given multiple genetic tests and they came back showing XY genes, not XX.
This would suggest that Khelif is an XY individual with a DSD, not an XX individual. The DSD is probably the same as that of as Caster Semenya, 46 XY 5-ARD, as individuals with that DSD are usually assigned female at birth, and (following increase of testosterone during puberty) do very well in women's sport.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5α-Reductase_2_deficiency
The IBA
Has been BANNED by the International Olympic movement.
FIVE years ago.
This is sour grapes, using a woman from a Sunni Muslim nation and calling her something she is not.
It is deplorable, thats the correct word.
You are lying, and you're capable of learning better and smugly choosing to not.
You're what's wrong.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/paris-2024-summer-olympics/banned-governing-b...
Learning
I believe also you are capable of learning. You could start by pointing out, specifically, any actual lies I said. You will find none; then you would learn that in fact, _you_ are lying.
It is true that the IOC does not accept the rulings of the IBA, which it did until 2019. Over the years, organizations grow and shrink; the IBA is currently shrinking. There are currently four major ones: the WBA, the WBC, the IBF, and the WBO. Note that those four organizations currently control most boxing, and typically accept each other's rulings. But the IOC doesn't accept determinations from _any_ of the organizations involved in certifying boxing.
The fact that the IOC is controlling eligibility itself instead of following any of the organizations controlling world boxing outside the Olympics doesn't mean the IBA and other organizations cease to exist, however. The IBA continued to hold the World Boxing Championships in 2023, despite being on the decline, and it was tests given at the 2023 and 2022 events that allegedly showed Khelif to be XY.
Currently, it seems the IOC is relying mostly on "history" and "passport" standards, instead of any scientific testing. They won't test Khelif et. al. for either testosterone or chromosomes, and get heated when asked about it. As a top WBO official has also said that Khelif is not eligible to compete as a woman, following genetic testing, the Olympics will probably be the only place Khelif can officially box with women going forward.
While we are on the subject of learning, you could probably to well to learn something about the medical conditions at the heart of the dispute, specifically the DSD of 46 XY 5-ARD. The best and most complete writeup of it, with reference to sport, is in Quillette:
https://quillette.com/2024/08/03/xy-athletes-in-womens-olympic-boxing-pa...
46 XY 5-ARD is the syndrome that Castor Semenya has, along with several runners of the same generation who are now barred from competing in women's events. If the allegations by the IBA and WBO officials are correct, it's probably what Khelif has too.
Such a condition is no reason to be unkind to Khelif or to anybody. It's got to make life more difficult, and we should not want to make others' lives more difficult. That said, there are women in the Olympics today who are having a very hard time with the idea that their opponents have the unfair advantage of male puberty and physique (e.g. Svetlana Staneva), and calling them names is unseemly as well.
In some countries, such as the Dominican Republic, children with 46 XY 5-ARD who grow up as girls are reclassified as boys after they go through male puberty. You can look that up yourself unless you want me to find you a reference.
Apt user name
The VP in question, István Kovács, was the secretary general of the IBA, and is referring to the same unsubstantiated IBA tests that were supposedly done after Imane Khelif beat an undefeated Russian boxer, restoring her record by disqualifying Imane Khelif. Furthermore, IOC revoked the IBA's Olympic status due to corruption of it's officials and governance, as the IBA is deeply connected with Russian organized crime.
There is absolutely no published or available evidence that Imane Khelif is not a woman. Only the word of a corrupted Russian boxing organization who never released any tests or results, and only announced these findings after one of their own boxers were beaten.
But, yeah, glad you live up to your username.
Unfortunate, yes. But in
Unfortunate, yes. But in fairness to the Globe, this article is from Associated Press. AP is a generally reputable outlet. I don’t expect a regional paper to fact check every AP sport article from matches happening in distant lands before publishing.
Article is from the AP, but
Article is from the AP, but as the globe reveals by apologizing to the AP, they write the headline. Not surprising as the Globe has gotten more conservative over the years from when it leaned center left in the 90s and before, to when it went all pro business, and lean center right now.
The Globe is center-right?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Maybe compared to the attendees at a Bernie Sanders rally?
this, but unironically
n/t
Disgusting sport no matter
Disgusting sport no matter the gender.
Why did they apologize to AP?
Given that they apologized to both the AP and the AP writer of the original story, that suggests that they changed the AP headline. I don't know what the rules are about taking AP stories and changing headlines, but I do know that writers are generally not the ones who come up with the headlines. So it is not inconceivable that someone at the Globe took the AP story credited it to its original author, but then made up their own headline.
What?
They published the AP story and sensationalized the head line, hence apologizing to the AP writer.
In case people want to know
In case people want to know the story behind the test she supposedly failed:
“The IBA, whose president is Umar Kremlev of Russia and is an associate of President Vladimir Putin, claimed the fighters had failed unspecified eligibility tests. The decision came shortly after Khelif beat Russian boxer Azalia Amineva, who was previously undefeated.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/totally-unacceptable-gender-identity...
More Russian Lies and Misinformation
See any Russians at the Olympics? No? That's because they cheat and lie when they aren't lying and cheating. They have a long history of this bullshit. Cannot be trusted - officially!
The whole "discredit the Olympics" is a combination of Russia having been caught cheating so many times that they have been banned, along with sour grapes that Putin's Manic Fascist Dream Girl got handed her nazi ass by the French electorate.
The sheep just follow along with the extreme braying and don't even know they are being used by a foreign country.
And who has been fired?
Yeah, I know, "the intern did it."
Wait... so they had to correct their first correction?
n/t
There’s good absolutists and
There’s good absolutists and intolerants on both sides. We need to be tolerant of the subtleties around these issues. These individuals are people, a he, she, or they, but not an “it.” These individuals have androgen production issues that disqualified them in 2023 even after the testosterone cut off was lowered from 10 to 5 ng/dL.
The World Commission? deemed fighters/athletes eligible to compete for want of information and scientific consensus, not because all the data is in.
It’s an editorial decision, not a scientific decision by all publishers (and the IOC) to use the “de jure” pronouns. And, it’s the correct decision. However, we’re in a lose lose situation of the good of the many vs. the good of the few.
Instead of everybody thumping their chests let’s cool the rhetoric and discuss dispassionately.
What's there to discuss?
There is absolutely no evidence that Imane Khelif is anything but what she says she is. There is no discussion needed over the conjecture of heresay from a corrupt buddy of Putin.
Also, why did you feel the need to spam the comments with multiple top level posts?
Why didn’t the reputable news
Why didn’t the reputable news outlets lead with the disclaimer that this is all a Kremlin misinformation op exploiting this hot societal issue?
Why...
Why don't you ask them?
Just askin' Questions
If by reputible news outlets you mean the Christian Monitor, or the AP piece that the Globe changed the headline on, then they all did report this, as have all real news outlets.
...
...
...
I mean literally linked in this article you are commenting on. But, you aren't hear for any real meaningful discussion or in good faith, you are just here "asking questions" to harass and bully a woman competing in the Olympics with absolutely no evidence or proof of anything.
No, let's not
How about no, because it's none of our business to discuss it, dispassionately or otherwise.
This is a societal issue.
This is a societal issue. Especially for parents with daughters and women of the dimorphic variety. Trans people are people and I would fight for them, but This isn’t about trans folk this is about some trans women taking advantage of their endowments to compete with an entire class of the weaker sex.
No.
It's not your business, busybody.
How does it feel being a willing tool?
I’m willing to adjust to new
I’m willing to adjust to new information.
Maybe?
Maybe, when it's spoon-fed to you, after you've regurgitated a bunch of propaganda. Why not use critical thinking skills and not swallow the bullshit to begin with? The truth was always out there.
Heretic.
Heretic.
What
the fresh hell are you on about now?
There - are - four - lights
There - are - four - lights! -Captain JLP
Well done! (golf clap)
Well done! (golf clap)
How does the Bo Globe know
How does the Bo Globe know this individual was “born female?” What evidence is there for the Globe to make this claim?
Mustn’t this individual have glands producing male levels of testosterone? Undescended testicles? DSD?
Apparently the parents raised this individual as a girl and love her. I don’t think cultural bullying is the best path for people learning acceptance.
We are already becoming more understanding of differences and histories, but using cultural coercion (and the political and commercial pandering to this de-generate, regressive, anti—democratic movement) and bullying to promote somebody’s subjective reality and make it everybody’s mandated reality is deeply Orwellian and that is probably where the popular author of a novel take on derivative ideas, JK Rowling is coming from. A difference of opinion is not hate.
I'm sorry, but your "just askin'" question is really stupid
How do you know she was not born a woman? Why are you so deeply troubled about her genitals?
And be honest: Had you even heard of her three weeks ago? Were you an avid follower of women's Olympic boxing? Have you been keeping up with your reading on the perfidy of Russian-linked sports bodies?
This is one case among many.
This is one case among many. If we were mislead about there being a “there” there in these specific case then that is unfortunate, however this (male bodies, however atrophied by hormone therapy and the timing relative to natural puberty, in women's’ sports) is a live societal issue that all members of society should weigh in on. Who are the arbiters of reality?
It really isn't
It really isn't, and you really shouldn't. You've been propagandized. You bit on that hook and now you're running with it.
I don’t know she wasn’t born
I don’t know she wasn’t born a woman. I could give two Schlitz abouter gonads, or condition, if any. I do care about media consolidation and the dominant stake holders/zeitgeist/paradigm/ whatever the better term is dictating what is the fundamental reality and anyone who question an asserted reality is a vile heretic. It’s a slippery slope. Yes, trans people, actual, or imagined shouldn’t be questioned, but cis women don’t deserve being trounced and thwarted by a “trans ceiling” in their chosen sports. If I’m wrong then the news needs to do a better job of presenting statistics and distribution of wins/performance of trans vs. cis and debunking myth, if there is one, of a trans women advantage in women’s sports. I don’t have to say trans folk deserve full actualization and acceptance, (even saying good things will trigger people/I already hem and haw and wrestle with my internalized my guilt and “privilege” to the extent that it can be difficult to speak ) everybody on this planet deserves love, acceptance and understanding, but there is an issue here to be grappled with.
Propaganda
Propaganda. Non-issue. Stop trying to pretend that you're not transphobic.
What evidence do we have
How do we know that you're not an alien from Planet Ten?
How do we know that you're not a member of the Sinaloa cartel?
How do we know that you're not Scott Lively's sockpuppet?
How do we know that you're not an angry Harry Potter fanboi?
How do we know that you are not, in fact, an actual sea lion?
But we do know
a lettuce will last longer than that poster will here.
How long have they been here? Two weeks? Three? And they already have a "really stupid" from Adam.
I mean
He has outlasted Liz Truss, but then she departed long before the lettuce could wilt, so...
I realize the right is more
I realize the right is more outspoken on this issue, but how do we affirm and ally with trans people without martyring cis women who don’t stand a chance? Stridency won’t make this go away.
This will always be an issue for the right if the left doesn’t own its Schlitz.
How do you get through the day
How do you get through the day without breaking your neck tripping over the mountains that you've constructed from imaginary molehills?
How odd that a white knight like yourself, riding to the (unasked for) defense of "cis women", would use a gendered insult.
Ain't no "Schlitz" to own, boy. Now drink lots of water and take some tylenol, it'll knock down that fever.
Until my party reconciles
Until my party reconciles this issue the right will keep running with it.
lol
You're both young and naive if you really believe that's how it works.
The only one running here is you, running all day for the right, waving the banner of their non-issue, sea lioning just-asking using words like "reconcile" as if the entire premise of what you're doing isn't both logically and morally invalid. The right loves you.
Is it all just misinformation
Is it all just misinformation that non-classical, trans &c women in women’s sport have an advantage? If so, then the media is not doing its job. If it’s a non-issue I will eventually come around to the data and reason and maybe simply compassion, but my read is it’s not a settled matter. Humans (and some other primates) have a deep, deep, primal desire, if not a drive for fairness and the notion that a small set of athletes with advantaged physiologies relative to the larger set of women they compete with is deeply unfair, selfish and immoral if what we know about physiology is true.
As for media standards and logic, Time magazine said one of the women boxers was a woman, because she was born in a country where trans gendered people aren’t permitted.
Yup. It is.
Yup. It is.
There are so many factors that convey "an advantage" in sports that it's nonsensical to try to tease one factor and say "aha, there! that's the advantage!" Any time you do this, you are guaranteed to be wrong. And when someone doubles and triples and quadruples down on their "I am just asking" sea lioning about characteristics that may or may not convey any advantage, may or may not be present in a given situation, and may or may not even be a thing at all, that tells me something about that person. That person is trying to manufacture a complaint out of twine and hot air. That's you.
Don't want to wear the brand of "person who actively promotes misinformation"? Go do the work. Educate yourself using reputable sources. Address all the questions that have been put to you. Stop demanding that people prove a negative. Abandon intellectual dishonesty. Ask yourself, honestly, why you are doing this -- and don't pretend that it's out of some abstract desire for perfect fairness in sports, or in support of female athletes, because it's not.
Yes, and those of us who live to adulthood generally develop enough knowledge and critical thinking skills to realize that fairness does not exist. Those who develop their minds a little further realize that the relentless quest for "fairness", rather than a noble pursuit, is a fig leaf over a desire to use a spurious complaint of "unfairness" to impose a burden on some people.
With every comment that you make, I am more and more convinced that what you know about physiology is negligible. Maybe you should sit this one out.
Yes
Yes, it is misinformation as this person is a woman and there is no credible evidence to the contrary, as already provided in reporting from "reputable" news articles.
Well… This thread is windier
Well… This thread is windier than an IndyCar race….
Peace/out
Having read this entire thread
I am more than convinced that my decision to ignore the Olympics this year was the correct one. Yikes.
nah
Simone Biles and Katie Ledecky have each been legitimately amazing; the US basketball teams are operating at a class above their peers; track and field has begun in earnest and it’s fun.
this is just a blip that the American right is using to stir up their base. literally a nothing burger and they won’t give a shit about it in like 5 days.
Transgender boxer out in round of sixteen
I don't know why the media and several posters here had to bring transgender people into this at all. Khelif is not transgender, and this isn't about transgender people.
A transgender person did compete in the women's boxing competition at the Olympics, but it wasn't reported in the Glob. His name is Hergie Bacyadan. He was beaten by China's Li Qian in the round of sixteen.
Bacyadan has said that any athlete born with XY chromosomes should not be allowed to compete in the women's division. Bacyadan has also said he believes this is not the case with Khelif and Lin.
Why can't some of our social justice warriors show the real transgender boxer - Bacyadan - a little love in between cursing at people who disagree with them?
Well done, Hergie Bacyadan! I hope you'll be back in 2028!
"social justice warriors", really?
For god's sake. Act your age. It's like watching someone bloviate when they've got spinach on their teeth.