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We're doomed

Lot of people on a harbor cruise

Marty Walz (yes, the former state rep), captured this image of the Provincetown II yesterday evening:

 

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rather than a "party boat" as such. The real question is, what capacity restrictions is it subject to, and is it violating them?

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This was brought up on Twitter too - this actually is a party boat.

See here: https://secure.baystatecruisecompany.com/cruise

It occasionally sails to P-town still but is mostly a party boat (and was last night).

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is that it sails close enough to Lovell's Island that the blasting music and screaming drunk people wake up your children when you're camping there in a goddamned National Park. They couldn't pick a route where they're further away from the islands with campsites? It hasn't been noticeable on any of the other islands on which we've camped, but on Lovell's it's ridiculously loud and wakes up sleeping people.

/getoffamylawn

...like a boat full of fratboys and woo girls.

Do you need your own boat? When I look at the Boston Harbor Islands and Boston Harbor Cruises websites, the only scheduled service that I see is from Long Wharf to Spectacle Island.

You can only get a ferry to Spectacle. However the others are still accessible by recreational boats. But camping is prohibited this year.

I have a feeling she's talking about a past year.

The company didn’t hide the fact that these cruises would occur and have their rules posted. Did any reporter bother to ask them how many people were on the boat and how they managed crowds? After seeing photos of ‘crowded’ beaches that were anything but, I am wary of random twitter photos.

I may be going overboard, but they COULD distribute PFDs and toss the excess capacity over the side if they were about to get busted. I mean, sure... it’s a health risk, so ask if they can swim first.

is not one of the "Fast Ferries" to Provincetown. This is indeed a "party boat," and is the largest cruise boat in Boston Harbor, according to Bay State Cruise's website.

As for capacity restrictions, I am not sure, but this in no way looks like proper social distancing.

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This is a party cruise, not used as a ferry on the weekend nights.

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Nope, it's a party boat. It was on the news this morning and they interviewed people coming off the boat who said there was dancing and drinking.

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we're all gonna die

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These nautical out-of-staters all abided by MA quarantine regulations, no question about it.

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They’re not out-of-staters, I promise you. The event page was only up for a week, and passed around by local promoters through Instagram and email lists. This is actually their second sailing... they first tested their luck last weekend with an even less marketed event on the same boat.

This is a very succcessful concert venue (That I’ve been on many times pre-COVID) that usually does 800-900 capacity, people in their 20s mostly from MA and perhaps RI. So even 30% of that is still a massive number. It had no business rebranding itself as a “harbor cruise” or sunset tourist trap. It’s not. It’s a concert venue with multiple bars that just happens to float. It’s normally called Boat Cruise Summer Series.

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.... people are distancing or even if they would be able to if they wanted to.

Seems to be over capacity. I say do not allow anyone to disembark, keep it out in the furthest reach of the harbor for 14 days and fine the ferry company.

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There's plenty of room on the boat. The issue is they're all on the the one top deck together.

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I was on the boat, looks crowded because 1) people were only on top 2) everyone was along the edges to see the views

it was in the open air, in the ocean, safer than a city street, supermarket, local mall, indoor casino... all of which are open. Let’s not shame people for trying to safely enjoy themselves

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It looks crowded because it IS. Even if they limited the total capacity, if everyone squeezes together in one part of the boat that's a dangerous crowd.

If supermarket shoppers have to line up 6 feet apart outside the store, and gatherings of less than 25 people aren't allowed, and bars are closed for the indefinite future, there's no way this should have been allowed to happen. If people won't stay 6 feet apart, booze cruises should be illegal during this phase.

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When not in the open air, people were lined up 6 feet apart with masks on when ordering drinks on the lower decks. They also abided by the regulation, there was a state trooper counting people as they entered the boat

State troopers famously can't count.

"Let's see, I was on duty Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday this week - that's 80 hours. [signs time sheet]"

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You are a fool and you should quarantine after this. Safer than a city street?! People on the sidewalks wear masks and don’t hang out in one spot for three hours surrounded by a hundred strangers.

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The boat is moving, you’re not actually staying in the same spot. So for the record you think it’s fine for gyms and casinos to open? But you can’t enjoy a beverage outside in the ocean during the summer? The boat abided by local limits and guidelines, should the business voluntarily turn away business?

...said it was fine for gyms and casinos to open. Personally, I'm avoiding both like the, uh, plague.

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THIS.

I don't know why this is hard for so many to understand: safer does not mean absolutely safe.

Outdoors is safer than indoors. Airflow is safer than stagnant air. Sunlight (or artificial light) appears to create a safer environment than not. But if someone standing in your immediate vicinity breathes the virus out of their respiratory system, into your face, and you inhale it, it is going into your lungs, no matter how much air, wind or sun there is.

Packing onto the top deck of a boat without masks, drinking and talking and having a good time is less safe than many other activities.

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Outdoor services, so no need for distancing or masks ...

They infected 3% of the residents of their city in a single week. Something like 500 cases.

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You were actually on that sardine can? What were you possibly thinking? You SHOULD be ashamed. Shame, shame, shame! And I love "it only looks crowded because people were all on top". Uh, HELLO.

and you should feel bad.

Not just for what you potentially did to yourself but what you potentially have done and will do to other people.

You and everyone else on that boat have put a lot of people at risk. And you know that, but you don't care.

So, you deserve your shame, and more.

For not wearing masks. Like in the days when we shamed people for smoking in restaurants.

Let's not shame people for being concerned during a pandemic

You're shamed for even considering going on a party boat right now.

Let’s shame them for failing to safely enjoy themselves.

How many mask wearers while drinking, chatting, singing, bloviating, etc.?

Leaving aside Covid-19 issues, is it safe for all passengers on a boat to be on the top deck only?

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Or do they exist to shake down small pubs over fights happening a block away while they are closed, not to take care of actual safety threats?

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This one can go well outside Boston's borders.

But for what it's worth, when it comes to places with more than one level, there are two occupancy limits - total and per floor. So a nightclub might have a total capacity of 1,000, but each floor would have separate capacities - say, to make it easier, 333 on three floors. And places have gotten dinged if they're under their total capacity but above capacity on just one floor.

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Than a protest. Further they appear to be acting like adults and contributing to the economy.

From the eventbrite page:

Join us on Saturday July 25th for our Sunset Vibes Cruise in the Boston Harbor.

Join us for the first Sunset Vibes harbor cruise of the summer on Saturday, July 25th, 7-9:30pm. To accommodate for safe social distancing, capacity has been downsized to 30% of our total capacity to limit the number of guests onboard. Masks are required for boarding proper cleaning and sanitation is being implemented by the Bay State Cruise Company. We can't wait to see you and to enjoy the open air and music on the Boston Harbor.

Music by Mikey V from Kiss 108 and Rico Suave

21+ with valid ID

Boarding time: 6pm-6:59pm

Departs dock: 7:00pm on the dot

Returns to dock: 9:30pm

Location: 200 Seaport Blvd, Boston, MA

(Located at the end of the dock near Dunkin Donuts, 7Eleven and across the street from Rosa Mexicano)

THIS IS A CASH BAR ONLY! NO DEBIT/CREDIT CARDS! THERE IS AN ATM ON THE BOAT!

Dress Code:

Recommendations: Dress to impress, be stylish, be bold

Disclaimer: Management / security has the right to refuse entry

ALL SALES ARE FINAL / NO REFUNDS

Boat sails rain or shine!

OUR RESPONSE TO COVID-19 AND SAFETY MEASURES:

BAY STATE CRUISES POLICIES AND PROCEDURES: Bay State Cruises has adopted measures recommended by the CDC and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for operating in the current condition of increased vigilance required for our passengers’ and employees’ health, safety and peace of mind.

Social Distancing: We have reduced the capacity of all Bay State vessels such that six feet of social distancing can be achieved. With Personal Protection Equipment (PPE) requirements of the State (more on that below) we are confident that everyone can remain safe aboard our vessels.We have signage throughout our boarding areas and vessels reminding folks to socially distance themselves from one another.We will adjust boarding times in order to better ensure decreased dockside congestion and social distancing between passengers waiting to board.

Face Masks and Personal Protection Equipment: As for our employees, you will see them wearing face masks at all timesFor our guests, we are following the guidance of the Governor of Massachusetts and the CDC, which we are sharing with you below.

We anticipate, and have all read about, this sometimes being a sore topic in our communities, so, let’s give this a particularly good look:From the State: Governor Baker has issued an Order effective Wednesday, May 6 requiring face masks or cloth face coverings in public places where social distancing is not possible. From the CDC: A face covering can include anything that covers your nose and mouth, including dust masks, scarves and bandanas. Do not use health care worker masks, such as the N95 masks – those should be preserved for healthcare workers.It is important that you wear these face coverings or masks in situations where it is difficult to maintain a social distance of six feet from others.

Open Air: Thanks to the nature of the boat, we have the natural benefit that our vessels’ open air decks provide. We have also modified the main cabin air circulation of our vessels such that the entire enclosed cabins’ volume of air can be completely renewed by fresh outside air in as little as three minutes.)

Cleaning and sanitization: Up to three times daily anti-microbial fogging of the vessels via electrostatically charged spraying that resists up to 24 hours of “touches”. You will see our crew walk through the vessels every 15-20 minutes to clean touch points such as door handles, handrails, and grab rails with disinfectant.

We have obtained 100 motion activated hand sanitizer dispensers and will have them within easy access to passengers and crew members throughout the vessels and on the docks.

Each of our crew have been provided with personal sized hand sanitizer bottles to be kept on their person throughout their shifts. They are to sanitize their hands between every contact, be it having touched a door lever, helped with a piece of luggage, or made a credit card transaction.

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Thanks Kiss 108 for supporting party boats during a pandemic.

Should probably be … not letting this kind of thing go on.

It's probably not actually going to be a spreading event, since it's outdoors with pretty good airflow. But it hardly seems like something which is remotely essential and certainly higher risk than, say, sitting on the beach of walking through a park.

It's basically a night club on the harbor. Seems a bit much.

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should mind her own business.

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Should avoid having opinions about serious public health issues during a pandemic.

Given the role of "superspreader events" in the explosion of this virus through the general population ... THIS IS EVERYBODY'S BUSINESS.

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Quite frankly sir....FO

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...and mine, and yours, and every member of the public's. People in Massachusetts are getting lazy and sloppy and stupid about this pandemic, and the result is 100% predictable. We NEED people speaking up. We NEED people saying something. We need this tendency to relax, to be careless, to "open the bubble" to be checked HARD. There is no vaccine, there are few effective treatments, and with the Trump administration having bought up nearly all the world's supply of Remdesivir for the next three months, and already playing games with how they're going to be allocating it, we have exactly one remedy for the foreseeable future and that's NOT GETTING INFECTED. Anyone who does anything that undermines this needs to be named, shamed and shunned.

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Say it together, with a nasal Yankee north shore inflection:

THE VIRUS DOESNT TAKE THE SUMMER OFF!

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In a statement reported on various media outlets. Apparently they are allowed to sail with as much as 44% capacity under current guidelines.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/photo-crowded-boston-harbor-cruise-...

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I'd hate to see what 100% looks like!

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Pre-2020, I believe sold out capacity for Provincetown II boat cruise summer series was between 800-900 people.

I was an attendee for many years.... not anymore. They’ve brought in DJs from around the world. Instead of doing that, they grabbed a few local DJs and anyone stupid enough to jump onboard with them. They should have waited.

Just so the wrong people don't get dragged into this, it was a Boston harbor cruise but the owner is Bay State Cruises, not BHC.

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Or have staff counting heads going up and down to the top deck.

This is unacceptable.

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As far as I can tell bars and nightclubs are currently allowed 0% capacity, and just because said bar or nightclub is floating is no excuse.

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is 1100 people.

33% of 1100 is 363. I don't feel like counting the people in the picture, but there are issues regardless:

- Outdoor gatherings of more than 100 people are not allowed. I don't know if there are separate rules for marine vessels. Doesn't everyone need to be seated, similar to outdoor restaurants?

- Cash only for the bar seems to be counter-intuitive during a pandemic. Contactless payment (debit cards), online ordering, etc. should be the way to go.

- Dancing and music? I don't think that is allowed either, and definitely is not advisable. Even weddings are not allowed to have outdoor bars or dancing.

- No refunds at all and all sales are final. If I got on that boat and saw no masks or social distancing, I would demand my money back. I certainly hope Bay State Cruise/Eventbrite would oblige.

Like I said, I don't know if these activities fall within state guidelines, but as much as I want to partake in summer activities such as this (I have been on, and enjoyed, party cruises on this boat in the past), I just don't think it is in the best interest of everyone's health right now.

Edit: Added Eventbrite to the refund section.

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Not to be a contrarian but I bet when the boat first took off it was not as obvious how crowded it was. Often people on boats like this will go inside , find a spot that they like and then go hit the deck. I personally go right for the deck to grab a good spot. So you would already be floating by the time you realized what was going to happen.

So then you would have to fight your way off the deck and sulk in the cabin area until everyone decided to rush back in. Which is why this model is inherently for suitable. If things like this are to happen they need assigned areas. When you buy the ticket which level are you stationed at and which area of that level.

NBC Boston reports the cruise company says the boat was only filled to 33% of capacity.

Wow that's some sloppy reporting. They seemed to think that it was a cruise for traveling from point A to point B rather than a party cruise that simply goes in a circle. They also did not challenge or question anything the cruise company told them, for example that yes they may be within the currently allowed capacity, but most people were all crowded on one deck. They also didn't mention that the woman who posted the photo is a former State Rep. Rather than just asking random people questions, perhaps the reporter should have done a bit more research into the story.

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Ships had to log a manifest of passengers onboard. Check Baystate Cruise’s log to see how many people were actually onboard. I think you’d see the truth.

“For people younger than 45, the infection fatality rate is almost 0%. For 45 to 70, it is probably about 0.05%-0.3%. For those above 70, it escalates substantially.”-- Dr. John Ioannidis, Stanford University, July 2020

Unless this was the senior citizen booze cruise, there's nothing to see here. This weekend, more died after being murdered in Boston's minority neighborhoods or while jet-skiing in Boston Harbor than will die from any booze cruise generated Covid-19. Just to be certain, perhaps Boston's Covid-19 czar General McChrystal could weigh in!

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Infection FATALITY rate. COVID can make people really sick without killing them. We should care about not getting sick.

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...then they all went home and had dinner with their parents and went to their grandparent's birthday party and tucked their kids into bed who went into school the next day and coughed on their teacher...

When we say you live in a bubble, Fish, we are talking about information not a literal bubble.

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A 22 year old nurse just arrived in Boston via an air flight for treatment (near parents) Diagnosed with Covid-19, an related infection has resulted in paralysis.
Folks of all ages have gotten the virus and died- it spreads easily and does not ask for an ID to check your age!

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John Ioannidis is widely dressed down by the scientific community for severe statistical problems, omitting data that counters his theories, and took money from industries with a vested interest in "keeping the economy open" such as airlines and hospitality.

If you want to cite scientists, you should come correct, instead of quoting a discredited quack.

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We can look at the Commonwealth's statistics.

Age group 0-19: 0 deaths, 6,737 reported positive cases, fatality rate 0%.
Age group 20-29: 16 deaths, 16,769 reported positive cases, fatality rate 0.1%.
Age group 30-39: 35 deaths, 17,531 reported positive cases, fatality rate 0.2%.
Age group 40-49: 88 deaths, 16,402 reported positive cases, fatality rate 0.5%.
Age group 50-59: 306 deaths, 18,193 reported positive cases, fatality rate 1.7%.

But... these numbers only include positive test results, and there's a fair amount of scientific consensus that the true infection rate is significantly higher -- up to even an order of magnitude higher. And if we incorporate that into the DPH's numbers, the fatality rate for persons under 50 is indeed probably under 0.1% for all those age groups, and maybe twice the death rate for seasonal influenza for those 50-59.

The average age of patients who died of Covid-19 in MA is 82. Five-eighths of deaths have been persons who are age 80+.

We all have a vested interest in "keeping the economy open." A prolonged shutdown will make the Great Depression look like happy times.

Now do excess deaths

CDC numbers for Massachusetts from 2/1/2020 to 7/25/2020 (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm):

MA deaths involving Covid-19: 7,785
Total MA deaths in period: 36,455
Proportional percentage of deaths versus expected count: 122% (i.e. 22% higher than expected based on 2017-2019 counts)
Math says ~29,900 deaths expected (29,881 but significant figures rule only allows 3 decimal places).

Excess deaths from 2/1/2020 to 7/25/2020 in MA would consequently total ~6,600 -- and that's under the number reported due to Covid-19. It's also likely that some number of excess deaths are due to individuals eschewing medical care for urgent conditions due to media/government-induced fear. On the flip side, some number of Covid-19 deaths were in seriously ill people who would have fallen into the expected deaths absent the pandemic.

So... about those excess deaths...

Your key word here is "almost".

Sixty percent (60%) of recent COVID cases on Nantucket are people between Twenty and Thirty (20 and 30 if you can’t read words).

All week long people wear masks in town. Friday afternoon the Jersey Shore backward baseball hat crowd starts arriving, and we get more cases in a weekend than we got from March through June.

It is Natural Selection.

All week long people wear masks in town. Friday afternoon the Jersey Shore backward baseball hat crowd starts arriving, and we get more cases in a weekend than we got from March through June.

I'm in the Berkshires and it's the same. I absolutely hate that I can't enjoy my own town because people are fucking idiots.

I'm sure your dogged adherence to cherry-picked, discredited statistics come as a *huge* relief to the loved ones of the 149K (and counting) who have died so far!

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You and your crystal ball are making projections again?

A WIN FOR SARS CoV-2!

And they told two friends, and they told two friends, and so on, and so on, and so on...

Covid-19 isn't a threat on boats just like it's not a threat at peaceful protests.

... becomes widespread some people may have a lot of guilt to deal with.

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They should have called it a protest cruise and they could of filled it to actual capacity

Yup.

Protesting in the middle of the ocean is a known successful protest strategy.

I mean there are dumbasses in every large group to be certain, but you should not be in the marketing department of Bay State Cruises with ideas like that.

Maybe I’m wrong,

A Black Lives Matter fundraiser with distancing and temperature checks, etc. and without dancing might sell some tickets, but I doubt that many.