A couple days ago, we considered an incident at Stony Brook involving a fat-shaming doofus and the woman he made cry.
A man who says he also watched the incident unfold explains why crying lady wasn't exactly Miss Innocent, that, in fact, she had been subtly tormenting the guy and an older woman she sat between from Downtown Crossing all the way into JP.
This woman proceeded to play her Nintendo DS, not with earphones on but with the system speakers set at a selfishly loud volume. To me this was becoming surreal and potentially escalating to a point of intentionally provoked confrontation. She seemed to be deriving great satisfaction from the discomfort she was causing those around her. If there was ever a way to instigate confrontation on the subway she was doing a great job. The gentleman to her right, no longer able to contain himself, said "Can you please turn that down?" To my utter excitement ( I admit it, I had front row seats and this was pure entertainment) She TURNED THE VOLUME HIGHER like a defiant, petulant child would, to purposely anger him. Subsequently, as though it couldn't get worse she physically shoved both her elbows into her neighbors in a blatant show of further undeniable violation of personal space.
Alison, who wrote the first post, replies (Note: That will bring up a copy stored here on UHub - seems somebody keeps getting the Craigslist version deleted).
Via Boston Reddit.
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 Original poster's rebuttal | 3.48 KB |
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Comments
In other words
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 8:49pm
The difference between name calling and belittling an individual who doesn't understand how to conform to social norms for behavior being bullying or not depends on whether you are Nancy's relative.
Okay.
So it was therefore not bullying when my autistic brother was bullied mercilessly because he looked and acted funny because because he was a weirdo freak and shaming is acceptable when it isn't Nancy's nephew.
Got it.
Whoosh!
By Nancy
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 9:27am
That's the sound of my point going right over your head. If I rewrite my post to be entirely in the 3rd person or in the 1st person would that make you feel better? I like to think that most people here read my post and realized that those were merely examples of the very big difference between shame and bullying.
I wasn't saying that bullying is limited to my nephew. You read it that way.
Finally - some good discourse!
By Freddy Benson
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:24pm
The original poster (which went viral to several online sites) really seems to be projecting (I also think she is one of the anons here) - it went from defending a woman who had been verbally assaulted by someone she then torn down this person via curse and generalization. Her follow up post to the rebuttal falls apart, talks about 'white guy entitlement' and fat shaming. I'm not saying she is a heavy non white person, but the tone of her posts are much more about her, than the woman 'insulted' or the guy who did it. It speaks volumes.
For what it is worth, as someone who rides the T every day (and has for two decades) I've heard people tell others to 'get the Hell out of the way!" or 'move their lard ass!' - these were usually women yelling at other people. Now, I could list a few incidents of race, age, etc, however, but the rudeness came in all shapes and sizes.
The real jerk is the poster, who got up on her high horse and decided to tear someone down on the Internet, and then obviously sent it around to sites that would sensationalize it, giving her attention.
Rude responding with Rude is not a great idea I agree, but turning into a whole anti man / anti white / fat is beautiful this guy deservers to die, is really wrong, and honestly, CL should remove her post.
It was relevant....
By Gary C
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:34pm
Surprised that no one mentioned that her size was relevant to the fact that she was squishing those around her. The fact that she was too big for the space available made the comment more than just a dig at her shape.
Wow, false equivalency
By CaptObvious
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:37pm
The ladies response to the response is the worst, most enraging part of this entire thing. So this woman can be a complete and total asshole, and you can't call her fat? Pointing out that she's overweight is the same thing as making a racist remark? Uh, no. It's not. It's not even close to the same thing.
Being overweight is something that is preventable, and, frankly, should be prevented. It's something that should be judged in the same manner as smoking or drinking to excess. You'd have no problem with giving someone shit about choosing to ruin their health by smoking, why can't you do the same when someone is of an unhealthy weight?
FURTHER, pointing out that someone is overweight is not even in the same ball park as making a racial slur, a homophobic slur or making insensitive statements about someone being disabled. The difference here is that you have no choice what race you are, what your sexual orientation is or whether or not your disabled. You do have the ability to not be overweight. And if you're being a jackass, AND you're overweight, don't be surprised when someone points out the fact that you're an overweight jackass.
Rant, over.
You have much to learn in kindergarten and church
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:56pm
Yes, and yes.
Please report to your local pre-K and K for more instruction on appropriate behavior.
Respectfully,
By CaptObvious
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:43pm
Respectfully, you're incorrect.
If someone is being an asshole, they should be called an asshole. If they're going out of their way to bother you and make you uncomfortable, you have every right to do the same.
Also, enough with this BS. Being overweight isn't the same thing as being African American, homosexual or disabled. It's not even close. Please tell me what kindergarten you went to that taught you that so I can make sure I never send my children there. Thanks.
Obesity is an epidemic in this country. It costs tax payers BILLIONS in heath care costs every year because people choose not to take care of themselves and maintain a healthy lifestyle and weight. It is literally the exact same thing as choosing to smoke cigarettes. You're choosing to do something that is provably unhealthy. Can you be addicted to food? Sure. Is it hard to not eat whatever the F you want? You bet. But you can also be addicted to nicotine, and it's pretty god damn hard to stop smoking too.
So please, stop pretending that being overweight is some sort of unassailable affliction. It isn't. It is literally a choice you make EVERY DAY to not be concerned about your health and well being. Period. And one of the biggest problems for doctors is that, when they tell their patients they're too fat, people like you and this bleeding heart writing these posts accuse them of "fat shaming." If you are overweight it is unhealthy. This is not a debatable point. Nearly every person on planet earth has the ability to NOT be overweight. That is also not a debatable point.
So please stop pretending that being overweight is the same as being of a certain race or sexual orientation. It's not, and to argue otherwise is ignorant.
So -- you can tell by a glance...
By Michael Kerpan
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:09pm
... whether someone is seriously overweight due to "self-indulgence" or due to some medical condition. If the answer is no, then the charitable way to handle things (even if unwarranted in a particular case) is "don't blame". (Or is dumping on others so satisfying that you wouldn't want to give it up).
Personal responsibility is a thing of the past
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 5:48pm
"So-- you can tell by a glance whether someone is seriously overweight due to 'self-indulgence' or due to some medical condition."
I was wondering when that old saw would come up. I would say it's a safe bet that 98% of the seriously overweight people one might see on the T are that way from their own unhealthy habits, rather than the small percent that have an actual medical condition. But that's the problem now. There is no PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY at all anymore. Where did that go? Eat too much? You've got a "medical condition". Drink too much? You've got a "disease". You're a big jerk? You are "socially impeded" or have "social anxiety". At some point people have to take responsibility for their actions.
Even if it's only 2 percent...
By Michael Kerpan
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 8:20pm
... (which I suspect is way too low) can YOU tell which two percent of overweight people are overweight due to factors legitimately beyond their control (even by YOUR definition)? If not....
Belittling strangers
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 5:58pm
is pretty much never appropriate, unless you're specifically criticizing a behavior that is specifically impinging on your life. And no, someone else's over-eating, or substance abuse problem, doesn't specifically impinge on you in the way that, say, forcing oneself into a space where one doesn't fit, or stealing your iPhone to feed a drug habit does.
With that said, the proportion of fat people who are fat due to a medical condition is just vanishingly small to the point of statistical insignificance.
Have any citation....
By Michael Kerpan
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 8:22pm
> the proportion of fat people who are fat due to a medical condition is just vanishingly small to the point of statistical insignificance.
Dr. Leponge?
Of course
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 10:19pm
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Why-people-...
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2958/do-f...
Sorry
By Michael Kerpan
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 11:34pm
These show that the percent is NOT "vanishingly small". ;~} (Unless you have a very loose definition of "vanishingly small").
Look at the historical trend
By Bob Leponge
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:11am
Obesity was pretty scarce 50 years ago. So explanations resting solely on inevitable genetics don't pass muster, unless you posit that our genetic makeup has changed significantly in two generations. And there's no particular evidence that the prevalence of disease conditions that could lead to obesity has vastly increased, which leaves behavior as an explanation that fits the observable data.
Now, if you want to define overeating as a disease condition (not that far-fetched, since the latest edition of the DSM seems to define being really sad after the death of a loved one as a diagnosable disease condition), then of course you could argue that all obesity is the result of disease. But I don't think that's very useful.
You are missing my point
By Michael Kerpan
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 8:42am
As long as there are SOME conditions where obesity is due to something other than "lack of willpower", a wise and kind person will not "judge" anyone based on their weightiness.
And a wiser (and kinder) person that I once warned. "Judge not, lest you be judged".
Of course Alison
By nightmoves
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 10:39am
aka TremendousHater, is absolved of all guilt from her vomit inducing judgment because she's a radical feminist social justice warrior.
No and No
By Nancy
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:12pm
and I say that as a woman who struggles with her weight.
How great that this story
By gotdatwmd
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:53pm
How great that this story (and this thread) have all the worst aspects of no effort social justice in one place.
- Arrogant video game players
- movethefuckoverbro morons who think the way someone normally on the T is PATRIARCHY/OPPRESSION/something to do with men needing to air out genitals???? (surprised a picture wasn't included)
- fat acceptance lunatics that compare weight to race
The last is the root of the problem. I am sure she was waiting with baited breath to unleash her tumblr diatribe.
Everyone needs to #chillthehellout
And now for my next prediction...
By Kaz
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:33pm
My post from the first article
If only I could see Mega Millions numbers as clearly as I can see through Craigslist drama...
Spelling counts, gang
By Michael
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:34pm
From today's CL post:
" Immediately the woman who caused all this carnage started balling. I have to assume you were the kind woman who looked in her early 30s came to console her."
Jesus, I hope he meant "bawling"
Thank You
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:45pm
Mr. Perfect!
I'm sorry
By Michael
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:22pm
for my "can't-spell-a-four-letter-word"-shaming
You know what I hate?
By Kaz
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:46pm
Average has a real definition. If the woman didn't fit in a single MBTA seat, then she's not average. It's not a belief. It's a fact.
As for "body normativity", you know what I hate? Amusement parks. I love roller coasters, but I've allowed myself to get too out-of-shape to fit most of their harnesses (sad, but true). "I hate those bullies at the roller coaster manufacturers who make seats that reinforce body normativity so I can't have a good time!"
Do you realize how dumb that sounds? It's because it's dumb. Roller coasters, like MBTA seats, airplane seats, and most other public conveyances, are made to fit MOST people (in fact, I still fit in an MBTA seat without invading others' space). They have an inherent assumption of "body normativity" to maximize their usefulness to everyone as best they can.
That's just your
By TheNon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:29pm
unearned BMI privilege talking.....
oh allison, i know this world is killing you......
By pierce
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:56pm
but it's okay to judge someone by how they dress?
get bent you judgemental pig, you've made Boston worse for your craigslist rant.
What F&*(ing Utopian world do you people live in?
By Dog
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:52pm
We're fat, we're skinny, we're short, we're tall, we're nice, we're mean. And most of all we're judgemental and have been for tens of thousands of years. I'm thankful that I don't live in a Utopian world where everyone looks and acts the same, what a boring world that would be.
Utopia
By Kaz
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 5:56pm
In most well-considered utopias, there exists communal sharing of resources, but in order to do so, each person has to perform their own roles in order to sustain the well-being of the society. Thomas More's Utopia, drawing from Plato's Republic, contains such a system. Such a system doesn't lend itself to everyone looking nor acting alike otherwise each person would be ultimately responsible for all of their life-sustaining roles. That would be more of a libertarian's utopia, however even in that extreme, not everyone will be as successful at sustaining themselves and the end result will be different looks and acts by every person you would see.
* - I actually took an advanced English/History course in college on the study of utopias.
Well then....
By Dog
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 7:09pm
that was money well spent. You got to use your college course in a real life experience.......responding to a blog post.
Link to original poster's rebuttal to guy's story updated
By adamg
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 8:59pm
Seems her reply was "flagged," which is Craigslistese for being put on the train to deletionville.
Who's on this train?
By BostonDog
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 9:21pm
Are you allowed to call someone fat when getting off at deletionville? What if they did something annoying first?
too bad
By deselby
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 9:24pm
I think it's possible the whole thing is a work of chain-fiction.
Part III, this time as fiction
By adamg
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:37am
Here's yet another account of the incident, only this time by somebody who wasn't actually on the train, he just felt like getting all Stuart Smalley with the crying woman.
CL, CC, 911, whatever works!
By Lmo
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:49am
I have faith that Bostonians wouldn't allow something like this to happen on the MBTA:
http://www.nj.com/south/index.ssf/2014/03/daughter...
since this Orange Line story has received so much attention.
Two wrongs don't make a right
By brianjdamico
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:13pm
Two wrongs don't make a right, but it certainly makes a difference that the guy was not unprovoked in what he said. It doesn't make what he said right, but if the woman was being an inconsiderate jerk on the train first, then I can understand why someone might say some unkind words to her.
There are at least two sides to every story, and reality is somewhere in between them.
Things I've learned here
By anon
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:34pm
1. It is okay to rudely comment on someone's appearance because Obesity Epidemic is Health Issue.
2. Shaming of weirdos who act oddly/antisocially and look weird/don't conform is not only okay but important because shaming makes them change! Unless, of course, they happen to be the weird acting, weird looking nephew of a certain poster, because he's autistic and that makes it bullying and you should just know that! Because!
3. If someone is being a rude asshole, that makes it open season for everyone to be a rude asshole because that gives them a right to be a rude asshole!
Sigh.
What I've learned here
By nightmoves
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 2:05pm
Attention starved "activists" will twist any situation into a publicity stunt despite their complete lies/hypocrisy and having their agenda rejected by the overwhelming majority of society. But hey, when you can't get a real job with real promotions then you have to settle for self-promotion.
Meanwhile over at BU, I haven't heard a peep out of the "Humanists" and other marginalized wackos about the disgusting man-shaming over at the DFP. I guess equality isn't really their agenda, it's incessant whining and special rights for the chosen few.
http://dailyfreepress.com/2014/03/17/hofberg-worko...
Interesting
By SwirlyGrrl
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 5:43pm
You do realize that you sound like a completely obsessed creep, right?
Obsessed?
By nightmoves
Sun, 03/23/2014 - 12:24am
Why don't you post a million more bike related comments?
#3 is completely correct. If
By Ryan
Mon, 03/24/2014 - 3:37pm
#3 is completely correct. If someone is being a rude asshole, then yes, it is open season for everyone to be a rude asshole to them. Based on this side of the story, she clearly was being rude on purpose. So she deserves to be treated with the same lack of respect that she gives others. Not sure why you think that is wrong.
Please explain
By cinnamngrl
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:38pm
Why do people believe that these "Opposing Viewpoints" are describing the same events and people? Every orange line train has like six cars.
So she deserved it
By Ryan
Mon, 03/24/2014 - 3:35pm
Since it sounds like she was being a jerk, she deserved to be treated that way. Fat shaming does not cross the line any more than her increasing the volume of her game and elbowing people does. I really don't understand why people are claiming his response somehow went too far. If someone is purposely trying to piss off the people around them, then they should be able to handle it when someone dishes it back at them.
Dude was a chickenshit all the same
By Dan Farnkoff
Mon, 03/24/2014 - 5:23pm
Saying his piece only when he knew he was about to exit. If what he said was legit, why not say it earlier, then stick around to defend the point? He knew it was a dickish thing to say regardless of provocation.
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