The City Council on Wednesday considers a request to begin looking at possible regulations over online services that let people rent apartments, such as Airbnb - and even Craigslist.
Councilor Sal LaMattina (North End, East Boston, Charlestown) says Boston needs to look at the burgeoning services before Boston's residential neighborhoods are harmed. In his request for a hearing, LaMattina writes:
Typical short-term lodging establishments - such as hotels, motels, bed-and-breakfasts, hostels, resorts, or inns - are regulated and taxed in a different manner than other commercial entities, including special fire safety requirements, state and city hotel room occupancy taxes, local convention center taxes affixed to hotel room rental, strict occupancy limits, among other various requirements. ...
These types of rentals have raised concerns and created problems in Boston and elsewhere when the spaces are used for loud or late-night gatherings and when the rentals lead to unauthorized access into condominium or apartment complexes, violations of City trash, parking and noise policies, or turn neighborhoods zoned for residential living into impromptu hotel districts.
The council's regular meeting begins at noon in its fifth-floor chambers in City Hall.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
 LaMattina's request for a loding hearing | 135.78 KB |
Like the job UHub is doing? Consider a contribution. Thanks!
Ad:
Comments
Subversion
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 4:15pm
The central philosophy of subverting the dominant paradigm is not every man for himself.
I have no problem with subversion. Declaring oneself above accountability for one's actions is not subversion. "I'm sorry that you're upset but I'm just going to keep being a douche" is not subversion. That is selfishness.
I have noticed that the older edge of this generation is being humbled. They seem to be adjusting to the realities of making a living without losing their creative edge, perhaps gaining focus from learning their boundaries. These are the people who are putting together small business ventures like microbreweries and maker communities and bike shops and such. Independence teaches lessons that indulgent parents couldn't.
In the meantime, we can continue to poke fun at people like this, who clearly don't understand why we have fences and that life isn't an experience buffet: http://www.wisn.com/news/woman-kicked-in-face-by-g...
Hilarious example of unearned millennial self-entitlement there
By MC Slim JB
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 4:41pm
Police: "You climbed a clearly-marked do-not-cross zoo barrier. That's a citation for potential animal endangerment."
Idiot millennial: ""I got hit in the face by a giraffe. I don't need a fine and this on my record. I don't harass zoo animals. I'm an animal lover."
Police: "Here's your citation anyway. Welcome to the world of adults. Yes, we recognize that yours will only be a brief visit."
Don't you understand that
By Scratchie
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 4:55pm
Don't you understand that this is how things work now? You old people may be fine with your "fences" and "restrictions" that "protect" the animals, but in today's internet-enabled world, such physical obstructions are meaningless. I couldn't have endangered that giraffe because I love animals, and nobody ever hurts the things they love. Just like that old song, "You never hurt the one you love." Q.E. Fucking D. Get used to it. We're going to be around for a while. Unless we decide to climb into the lion pit next.
And, of course the millennial
By Hyde_Parker
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 3:47pm
And, of course the millennial turns this into, "It's not MY fault! I should be able to do whatever I want because YOU screwed up the economy!"
Calm down and go pay off your student loans, like the rest of us did.
Although your loans were
By MikeA
Wed, 08/20/2014 - 2:53pm
Although your loans were likely much easier to repay because they didn't add up to a mortgage. States used to, in your day, contribute a lot more to education, but that's no more because Boomers wrecked shit, leading the feds to withdraw funding from states, and states to withdraw funding from education, all causing a huge surge in student loans. So, yes, Millenials (I am not one) will pay off their loans - someday - but it's certainly no thanks to dipshits like you that were part and parcel of their loans being such a burden.
There are several
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:57am
Primarily, it is "this is how the world works now", "I didn't think it would be a problem" and the ever popular use of "sorry" and "excuse me" as commands (to move aside, to stop questioning/challenging, etc.) or as a way to say "I'm sorry you have a problem with this but I'm going to keep doing it".
It may be just a young thing, but I don't remember people my age being so sure about plunging ahead as if the rules they agreed to in writing were entirely optional because "cool new thing".
This is very much a generation which has been raised to believe that it is easier to express fake regret than to ask permission. The older ones seem to be catching on now that they are opening their own businesses and acknowledging that actions have consequences beyond their immediate focus.
Yeah, the youth has always
By zetag
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 10:09am
Yeah, the youth has always followed the rules set forth by the older generations. You also say that this "generation which has been raised to believe that...." Why are you pointing the finger at the those who were "raised" aka taught a certain way to live and not at those who raised them that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IjTUxZORE
Rules set forth by older generations?
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 10:38am
That wasn't the issue here.
The issue was rules set forth in writing and agreed to in writing at the time of purchase and occupancy of said condo.
I have young people at home, remember. I agree that there is a lot of "no" around that doesn't need to be there. HOWEVER, if you sign a set of documents, then violate those documents, get called on your shit when problems arise, then pretend they don't apply to you, you are a massive douchebag and that has NOTHING to do with "old people are just picking on kids wahhhhh" in the least. Even the other younger people were pissed off at this bint.
And, yes, I fully blame the baby boomers and their parenting "theories" for a whole load of this behavior. I remember my GenX peers and I watching their parents in action when they were toddlers and saying "no fucking way" and "my kids will know what "no" means". That said, we all have to live with the massive outfall of living amongst a large generation of people who were too precious to discipline, but not too precious to saddle with massive debt. Some of these people still need to learn about what boundaries mean, and they are learning the hard way.
So it's only millennials who
By zetag
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 10:38am
So it's only millennials who have ever violated a contract? Got it.
Not the contract violation
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 10:39am
The response, however, of "oh I'm sorry but its cool so lets just move on (and I'll keep doing it)" was classically millennial.
Sure, no person in any other
By MikeA
Wed, 08/20/2014 - 2:55pm
Sure, no person in any other generation has ever said as much.
"Even the other younger people were pissed off at this bint."
By ilusi
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 5:41pm
..then why are you going on about Millennials and baby boomers? A young person broke the rules and won't own up to it, therefore MILLENNIALS, MILLENNIALS, MILLENNIALS. Sigh. There are selfish people in every generation. I'm just incredibly tired of older generations ranting about younger generations and vice versa. It's divisive and tiresome. :/
Because of the excuses and attitude
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 8:46pm
The attitude that "Oh, did I break a rule, my bad, sorry, you just didn't understand this new thing and now I'm going to assert that I'm going to keep doing it, sorry" is a signature move.
Sigh.
By ilusi
Wed, 08/20/2014 - 4:19pm
A signature move? The youth (and the elders, for that matter) in my life are too complex to be stereotyped like that.
Full disclosure: as I mentioned to MC Slim up thread, I'm in my 20s. A "millennial." I'm also a member of a community group of women here in Boston that is deliberately multigenerational. It's a blessing, because the thing about having friends in their 50s when you're in your 20s is that you have role models, people who have been there and done that- and I think we learn a lot from each other. Coincidentally, we had a retreat this past weekend and one of the topics we discussed were the assumptions that others make about our respective generations and how to stand up for our sisters of all ages.
All I can say is that whether you're intending to or not, you're building a wall between generations with your words right now.
Millenial excuse
By ImmodestyBlaise
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 2:49pm
"Because technology and all the future things."
Why should an intercom break
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 5:36pm
Why should an intercom break because people are using it?
How many button pushes per day is an intercom certified for, before it suddenly breaks?
Come on Sal!
By ChrisInEastie
Mon, 08/18/2014 - 8:38pm
How can you support Uber but NOT Airbnb? Airport hotels contributing to the campaign but cab companies not?
How about taking care of the trash and traffic pattern problems in our neighborhood before you mount up for that crusade?
Exactly
By Kaz
Mon, 08/18/2014 - 9:41pm
This is why we have regulations. Oh, Uber doesn't need to follow regulations but AirBNB does? Why is that? Because Sal lives near people that might rent to screw-ups but doesn't like Boston taxis either?
Selective enforcement is not the answer. Enforce them all or write them out of the rule books.
Uber *is* regulated
By eddiil
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 10:24am
I think the big battle with Uber right now is whether taxi regulations apply or not--not whether they should be enforced. Just look at the hearing in Cambridge last month--the proposal was to rewrite the rules so that Uber-type services are considered taxis/livery, not to enhance enforcement of rules that already applied. As you say, the question is to write Uber into (or out of) the rulebook. Right now, it's not obvious that the rulebook applies to them.
It applies to their "contractors"
By Kaz
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 11:55am
If we're talking about UberX, the sharing part of Uber, then the rulebook applies to their drivers. And as such, they are contracting with scofflaws (at best). In fact, their contracting provides incentive for people to shirk laws...so it's almost like a RICO for petty crimes.
Uber, itself, claims to be above the law by using contract law as a bridge to the real law breakers, their drivers. I'm pretty sure the mob godfathers felt the same way. They all went down together. However, when Uber breaks the law along with its drivers, nobody gets murdered. So, we're not as quick to care.
when Uber breaks the law
By Scratchie
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 12:05pm
Not usually, you mean?
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Uber-Driver-A...
Ask Uber
By Kaz
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 3:25pm
He wasn't on the clock. They don't want anything to do with him. Like a rogue stooge settling a gambling debt with his fists.
Oh, but NOW, they cover their drivers even if they're not on the clock. It's a miracle of generosity and not a reaction to that incident at all, I'm sure. Stop judging them! They just want to be your friend!
Speaking of which, the news today is that they just hired Plouffe (of Obama campaign fame) to handle policy/messaging/etc.
Many condos already forbid this
By JCK
Mon, 08/18/2014 - 8:45pm
I'm pretty sure most associations prevent the use of units for short term rentals.
Yes, most (nearly all)
By BosGuy
Mon, 08/18/2014 - 9:39pm
Yes, most (nearly all) prohibit short term rentals, and most trusts require copies of leasing agreements when units are rented out, with stiff fines for failing to do so.
The last thing a condo owner wants is for their neighboring units to turn into "who knows who" is going to be living there. It's one of the nice things of a condo over an apartment, some guarantee for "quiet enjoyment of your home".
I like to run Sal's speeches
By anon
Mon, 08/18/2014 - 9:31pm
I like to run Sal's speeches through a plagiarism scanner, just for fun.
He's been lost without Menino.
what are you talking about?
By rui
Mon, 08/18/2014 - 10:36pm
what are you talking about? is there one line plagiarized in his entire order for this hearing? or any other? i'd be pretty shocked if you can back that statement up
No.
By cybah
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 7:30am
No.
This is about tax revenue and nothing else. When you rent from AirBNB you do not pay any rooms and meals taxes on the rental. Why? because its not a hotel room, which is how they skirt the law. Its clear this about protecting old revenue (keeping it coming in) and getting new revenue in.
This is why the city is all against anything thats new that they can't regulate. Loss in tax revenue.
Do you mean fairness?
By merlinmurph
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 8:07am
Hey, Air B&B is great, but it certainly is on the edge of some laws and taxes, and that's catching up to them. If someone is renting out their place like a hotel or b&b, then they need to pay taxes like all the other inns. Being zoned correctly might be a good idea, too.
How is it different?
I agree with Merlin. Revenue
By Bob Murphy
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:00am
I agree with Merlin. Revenue is likely part of it, but there are other legitimate concerns, such as zoning. Why should a b&b need zoning relief, but someone listing one (or more) rooms on air b&b can rent out their room(s) without meeting the same zoning regs? If for example multiple neighbors suddenly start listing rooms on air b&b, I would imagine that would start to impact their neighborhood and the city has an interest in regulating that to make sure it doesn't get out of control.
As for revenue, if air b&b thinks it's service is different from other businesses that pay tax on lodging revenue, lobby the legislature for a different rate (and make their case). They shouldn't Just claim they owe nothing because their service is new.
This is about tax revenue and
By Carty
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 8:39am
No. It's also about not having random strangers living in your building short term.
Do we get so excited about innovation and the "sharing economy" that we forget that these problems existed before? And that we have existing, pragmatic mechanisms for dealing with them?
I'm sure when my condo
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:24am
I'm sure when my condo association made the rule in 1989 not permitting rentals less than 6 months, it was all about the city's tax revenue.
Also, about bugs
By Kaz
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:29am
Owners of multiunit dwellings (for a condo, that's usually the association) have to fumigate if they find pests. It's in the Sanitary Code and city regulations. If you're running a hostel out of your bedroom, you can't control for whatever the day-to-day renters are going to bring into the unit unless you gas them at the door for bedbugs, roaches, etc.
If I have to keep paying to have the whole house bombed because you are running a business out of your place while you're absent, then we're going to have issues.
huh?
By Guy
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 7:34am
What's that Sal? An "innovative" start up that needs to be regulated? Sounds like Uber to me! Regulate them all so that legitimates businesses that have invested millions can survive.
Maybe if those "legitimate"
By MikeA
Wed, 08/20/2014 - 2:58pm
Maybe if those "legitimate" businesses weren't run like shit and didn't perform like shit they'd have a better chance of surviving without a helping hand.
Air BnB
By Kentucky Migrant
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 8:25am
My wife and I stayed recently in two Boston-area airbnbs. They were great, with great hosts, a perfect alternative to the area's exorbitant hotel prices which, I suppose, must charge big bucks only for pointless luxuries and a place to sleep! Airbnbs bring decent people together and put a face on the city, making friends - whether the city government realizes it or not - for the whole community. The experience gave me a "tie" to Boston, and added to other reasons makes me want to return. And when I return I spend money, mostly in locally-owned shops. I guess a few bad apples create occasional problems as they also do everywhere, and in large hotels. Condo owners can deal with these. But where I stayed the only problem was a neighbor - a permanent resident - who was doing his exercise routine in the middle of the night. A dull thumping, but not a problem to me at all. I hope the city is wise enough not to let a few incidents restrict the enormous benefits airbnbs provide. They may be one of the best grass-roots economies in America. The human (social) benefits are even greater. Good for people, good for the city.
Airbnbs bring decent people
By Scratchie
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:26am
Or not.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/17/airbnb-or...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/squatters-refuse-to-le...
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/31/another-airbnb-vi...
Exactly
By Kaz
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:34am
It's like people look at the 80-90% of the time when something goes right and think "ah see, there's nothing wrong with this! I had a great time!". The rules were written for the 10-20% of the time when it goes wrong.
A few horror stories make the
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 1:38pm
A few horror stories make the national news. They're newsworthy *because* they're so rare.
You could say the same thing
By Scratchie
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 4:02pm
You could say the same thing about salmonella and E. coli outbreaks. Should we abolish the FDA and USDA?
No, but we also shouldn't ban
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:07pm
No, but we also shouldn't ban meat.
Man, I hate analogies in arguments. They're like saying two things are the same when they're actually not.
Seems like you are an airbnb
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:33am
Seems like you are an airbnb host. As NY has shown, it is not a 'grass roots' folksy thing. NYC found out a large percentage of airbnb rooms are rented by landlords with many units running de facto hotels with rooms spread out over the city. In their hometown of SF, they pay hotel taxes, but not in most other places. If you really want a place to meet people from the city with a place to stay, couchsurfing is the free, non corporate way. Airbnb is a way to skip the hotel taxes (and instead pay them in fees to airbnb corp. which doesn't help pay for things in our city at all.
More than just taxes
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 10:43am
People in NYC and SF were being evicted so that the landlord could do short-term rentals of their apartments for much higher returns. Thus it was becoming a change of use issue (zoning) as well as a housing rights issue.
What's that about Millenials?
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 12:40pm
Quoting:
Condo owners don't want to deal with the "few bad apples" brought in by AirBnB "host" freeloaders in their building, nor the general costs that even good apples have on a hotel that was not built or planned to be a hotel.
What general costs are those?
By MikeA
Wed, 08/20/2014 - 3:00pm
What general costs are those? And how in the world does that relate in any way Millenials? That's just being stupid for the sake of being stupid.
and now, back home, you are
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 3:05pm
and now, back home, you are reading and posting to comment boards in Boston after a two day stay? Do you do that for every city you visit? Seems more likely that you are an airbnb host in Boston lying that you were a guest. Sounds about right for Airbnb.
Gee, that's a wonderful story
By merlinmurph
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 3:27pm
Yup, great story.
Thing is, condo owners don't want to deal with it. If the association rules say no short-term rentals, then no short-term rentals. I'm sure 90+% of hotel guests are very nice visitors. It's the remaining guests that tear the place apart we're concerned about. When a guest shuts the heat off in January and the pipes burst and affects other owners, short-term rentals are a concern.
It can be tough enough dealing with other condo owners. There's no way I want to deal with transients on the property.
Air BnB
By Kentucky Migrant
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 6:39pm
An airbnb operator I am not. I understand the "cons." The NYC and SF stories in replies show abuses, no doubt about it. And condo association rules are rules. I learned from casual conversation one host, typical of his general attitude to people and the world, had the approval of other condo owners. Anyone with sense would get that first. The other rented a room in his own home. We ought to remember there are risks on both sides in this trade, risks that are freely taken by each party. If the guest isn't satisfied he can only complain to airbnb. What would come from that, who knows? If the host has problems, well, they go with the show. On both sides, risks are considered and accepted - as are the benefits.
Air BnB
By Kentucky Migrant
Wed, 08/20/2014 - 8:56am
I wrote about a very positive - and first - experience with Airbnbs my wife and I had in the Boston area. I should have added I don't mind being grouped with "Millennials." I'm almost 70.
Not sure I care for this
By Patricia
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 9:03am
Not sure I care for this service. I was reading where a woman did rent out her condo that she only used occasionally. Unfortunately for her, they guy she rented it out to knew the eviction laws, etc. and overstayed his time allotment. But, due to some laws regarding squatter eviction, she was unable to force him to leave and now has to go through the legal system. Air bnb is involved and has offered to help with legal bills.
http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/local/2014/07/...
This has nothing to do with AirBnB
By Bob Leponge
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 11:08am
You think that renting to daily customers a room in your house, or your apartment when you are traveling, started with AirBnB? Or even with the Internet? I knew people who were doing this in 1990 in the big apartment buildings in Chicago; they used booking services or the classified ads to find customers.
Can we please refer to this business phenomenon correctly, using some terminology like "off-the-books daily subletting" rather than "AirBnB?"
Yes, I'm sure everyone will
By Scratchie
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 11:29am
Yes, I'm sure everyone will get right on that, Bob.
Here's what it's got to do with AirBNB:
1) Convenience. It was never financially feasible to buy or rent large numbers of units to turn them into hotels, because there would be no guarantee that classified ads would be sufficient to keep them full. That is exactly what is happening in high-demand cities like New York and San Francisco, though, thanks to AirBNB.
2) Cha-ching. I doubt any of those booking agencies or classified ad-running newspapers were valued at $10 billion, as AirBnB is. This sort of money means that anyone who prefers that their neighbor not run an unlicensed hotel in their building has their back against the wall.
Fair enuff
By Bob Leponge
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 11:55am
A big enough quantitative shift is in fact a qualitative shift.
But really, there are already laws on the books that forbid people from doing what AirBnB is helping them to do; I don't see what the issue is, other than enforcing the law and requiring that anyone running a hotel or B&B play by the same rules as everyone else running a hotel or B&B.
That is exactly the issue.
By Scratchie
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 11:58am
That is exactly the issue. Cities and states apparently don't have the resources to effectively police the huge number of people who are illegally profiting off this. And the aforementioned millennial attitude of "Why are you hassling me, man? Just be cool!" doesn't make it any easier (e.g. I assume that in the old days, the people who were illegally subletting their apartments via classified ads and whatnot were at least discreet enough to try to keep their neighbors and/or landlords from catching on).
Its harder to regulate
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 12:16pm
Its harder to regulate individuals breaking the law, but of course that doesn't nor shouldn't stop people/law enforcement from trying. But with Airbnb they are a large corporation whose business model is helping people break the laws/codes. They go into cities where what they are coordinating (and charging for) is illegal. So it makes sense to shut down Airbnb unless they agree to abide by local laws and codes where they operate. Of course its easier (and more profitable) for them not to, but it would also be more profitable for other businesses not to follow the laws.
Good luck
By Kaz
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 2:13pm
We can't even get an ISD that can find fault with ANY of Anwar's apartments (according to Anwar's testimony at the Council). You want them to track down every AirBNB and bust them for zoning violations?
I want a decked-out Tesla S. Let's see which of us gets what they want first.
Were there large business
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 1:30pm
Were there large business travel partnerships so that Fortune 500 companies can book into these rental sublets? Because there is with airbnb
https://www.concur.com/blog/en-us/concur-airbnb-sh...
There are over 3000 Boston
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 12:00pm
There are over 3000 Boston entries on airbnb; so I think this discussion is moot; the city hasn't the resources to control this.
There is one airbnb though,
By anon
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 2:40pm
There is one airbnb though, and that is the point of this hearing: to stop airbnb from facilitating breaking the law/codes in Boston.
But
By nightmoves
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 7:25pm
There is Homeaway.com, VRBO.com, and numerous local agencies that do short term rental logistics.
That would be a good place to start investigating.....
By merlinmurph
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 3:29pm
Thanks for looking, that's eye-opening.
Sees 100 Comments, Expected AirBnb fight, Found Generation fight
By RhoninFire
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 3:47pm
I guess this website is has an older demographic than I thought. And I guess I'm not that old yet. I can take that in comfort as I read my generation gets bashed.
Keeping an eye on you now
By Kaz
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 4:21pm
Just don't let us catch you cheating at trivia and you'll be alright in here.
Best reason not to rent your condo on Airbnb
By adamg
Tue, 08/19/2014 - 5:18pm
According to Beta Boston, if you rent out your condo via Airbnb, it will be used for raves or something:
Or if they don't throw a party, they might not leave...
By anon
Wed, 08/20/2014 - 9:41am
:"Here’s one big difference between a hotel and Airbnb: If someone rents a hotel room and refuses to leave, the desk calls security and has him thrown out. If someone rents out a place using Airbnb and the “guest” refuses to leave, there’s no desk, no security and sometimes not much recourse."
Pages
Add comment