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E Line restoration goes off track
By adamg on Wed, 02/18/2015 - 12:59pm
Stuck trolley. Photo by Jon Frederick.
Michael Femia reports a trolley acting as a plow got stuck on Huntington Avenue by the Museum of Fine Arts around 12:30 p.m. Yacques reports it derailed and took out a street light and hit a pole.
In the photo above, that yellow thing was the plow attached to the front of the trolley.
Frederick also happened to photograph the snow mound that did in the trolley before the trolley arrived:
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Comments
Who piled that snow there?
Did BTD build that pile? Or did the T build it up and try to send a train through it? It looks like the tracks beyond it were cleared.
You could send a front-end loader in to clear it off, but some might get on the road, and god forbid snow were to delay a single car. Why is there such a priority to melt off roads, paying millions of dollars to private contractors, but the T is hamstrung with just a few units and has to call in the National Guard and prison labor?
Removal there has to be
Removal there has to be coordinated. It's not like getting somebody in to clear a parking lot. You can't let just any idiot with a front end loader work there - there are overhead catenary lines. You either have to have someone who is specifically trained for that environment or (more likely) de-energize that section of the system, no matter how far that circuit extends.
Barn door, horse kinda thing
But I would think that they should have a melter on wheels that runs at night for the light rail lines. Could be gas/propane if moved by an internal combustion vehicle (doesn't need to run in the tunnels) or I'd bet a light engine hooked up to that catenary would make one hell of a space heater as long as you have some way to clear the water so it doesn't refreeze.
We have melters...
...they're the jet "Snowzillas" that blow crap all over the place. Not real practical for the light rail.
This might be another side effect of not having snow trains running on these lines for a while - all the street plows just piled it on the tracks at every intersection, crossover, etc. Now the T's stuck with a major excavating project to get their trackage back. And as has been pointed out, that's not good territory for untrained crews with heavy machinery - you'd be asking to have either the catenary and/or track damaged.
As I said in another thread, the T needs a modern replacement for the old Type 3 snowplows.
Leave the snowzillas to the Yeti
You put the snow IN the melter, you don't blow it around - or just drive over it with a big heated box that's open on the front. You'd have to buy/make one - but this isn't rocket science - it's a friggin space heater in a metal box - powered by gas/propane or electric. The city just bought one that does 80 tons an hour for $500k. If you spent a few million on several of these and used them once every couple of years they'd pay for themselves just in lost revenue for the MBTA - to say nothing of what these messes do to the local economy.
would think one or two of these per line should easily get them cleared. This is chump change in the scheme of multibillion dollar budgets - and business losses in the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars per storm.
Ahh, ok...
...I misread that.
Still wonder if some dedicated snow plows wouldn't be cheaper and more versatile. The object needs to be to keep something moving over the lines during a storm to prevent the street plows from plugging everything up.
Depth and frequency
Brushes probably fine for a few inches and plows for a bit more than that - you need the melters when there's no place to put the snow - or when there is so much the amount you plow over just goes on the other track or into the road. This if for the Nemos, and Junos and the times when it snows three times in a week. Just another tool in the arsenal - for the really serious stuff - and doesn't seem to be overly costly to help maintain such a valuable asset. Plows can probably suffice for the commuter rail. Just need this for the more sensitive light electric stuff.
harder than that
You still need a place to filter and get rid of the meltwater. Most of the snow melters I've seen running in BOS this year have effectively been tethered to a single location or small area because they needed to sit on top of unfrozen large drainage systems. The pair I saw running at logan were sending a massive torrent of water down the drain.
Buying the melters would be pretty easy and should be a no brainer for the MBTA but setting them up or figuring out how to make them portable would be harder - especially setting up drainage connections to the sewers along each of the main rail lines or subway routes
Other systems use large brushes to clear snow
They are like the front brush of street sweepers, only larger in diameter, probably 5'. Not nearly as loud as jet engines precluding use in densely populated areas, especially overnight.
BTW, where are the advocates of human powered transportation in all this? Why aren't they all clamoring to shovel? Reality getting in the way again?
Even a Type 3 would derail
Even a Type 3 would derail trying to take out that mountain. No other light rail system in North America today uses specialized electric powered plows anymore, they either have plows on the revenue equipment or they use diesel-powered high-rail equipment. If you look for photos of LRVs in Denver or Minneapolis you will see that the plows on the revenue equipment are somewhat more substantial though than the small truck mounted plows on the Type 7s and Type 8s.
Sorry if I misled...
...I didn't mean to imply that a Type 3 would go through that stuff in the photos yesterday. I didn't write that out very well.
What I am thinking is that there needs to be some sort of maintenance-of-way snow removal equipment (or non-revenue equipment, diesel or electric) that can operate over the lines during storms to prevent them from being plowed under by city plows.
But then again, maybe this just is too big a storm to prepare for.
I'm still curious why someone made the call for ramming speed yesterday. That seems like one where they should have known to stop and wait for the front-end loaders.
Don't want to spread any more negativity towards the T, but...
did the operator really think they were going to be able to go through that pile without derailing?
Hello, McFly!!!
B Line
So whoever is bitchin about the B line not being restored... let me show you exhibit A
I re-iterate my stance on why the D line was open first.. because it runs in a culvert, not at street level. Here's why this is better and why the B line has not opened yet.
C is marginal because it has less grade crossings and has trees (read: more room for snow) along the side.
All the lines!
Up until the storm this weekend the Green line (B,C,D) was running better then Red and Orange. Then they suddenly decided on Sunday they couldn't run Green line trains above ground anymore.
So... What happened? Why was the snow not a problem in the previous storms but now was?
Perhaps more importantly, why is it taking so long to clear the tracks. At least with Red/Orange they had the excuse that ~50% of the train sets were non-functional but it's seemed as if the green line has held up better. The newer Italian cars are AC powered.
Strange happenings at the T
I'm starting to think there is definitely more to the picture than meets the eye. At this point the snow induced problems should be improving at least slightly, but they are getting worse instead.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but something is going on.
Two Cents
Okay, I didn't want to throw my ideas into the mix but I can't let these 'theories' continue to slide around.
I honestly think part of the issues are a few distinct things.
1. the whole AC vs DC motor thing. Yes motors are burning out due to the reasons people have explained before. I won't touch on this again.
2. Snow after snow after snow. This is a big one. Why? Because remember the T has miles of track to clear in a short order of time and by the time they got out there, it was too late. Snow started covering the tracks (and iced over the third rail).
Has anyone realized that the two lines with the most problems (outside of the GL) are the ones with the longest distances between stations? That run from JFK to North Quincy is a long one. And imagine how many trains you would need to run to combat a snowfall of 2-3" an HOUR? I just think they couldn't keep up. And I think sending more non-revenue trains out there to clear railways would have yielded more dead trains. And more dead trains to move, plus now you have manpower used to remove dead trains vs combating snow. It's just a no win situation. Plus during shutdowns, we weren't privi (since there was no service) to know how many dead trains sat on the tracks.
That was the issue after the 3rd storm when that train got stuck during revenue service. Anyone notice how that train pretty much sat there for TWO DAYS after? Probably because they just couldn't even get any equipment out to push it out of the way and/or to even clear the snow. And then the third rail iced over.. and it's just stuck.
As far as the Snow and the green line. I've said it twice today so far, and I'll say it again. Remember that the B and E lines are in medians with little or no wiggle room for snow banks. So you'll have a city plow come by and re-cover the tracks, so the T is back to removing snow off the tracks again. C line, was fairly better because there is some wiggle room for snow banks.
And keep in mind folks, snow after snow just makes these snowbanks along comm ave just get bigger (and topple over onto the tracks) and it just becomes harder to combat the snow. It just has no where to go.
3. Ice. Like snow, this is another big one. Not only the third rail icing over but switches. Think about the green line switches for a moment. Think about all that snow, salt, and ice all mashed into switches. This all has to be heated up to be removed. And no snow plow can remove that, it all has to be done with manual labor. Now think about every switch or crossover that is between Kenmore and BC. Lots of them. They all need to be de-iced. Same with Orange Line and Red Line.
Add another large snow storm and its like "Wash, Rinse, Repeat" on any of these issues. I just think the T has just taken a beating. And now you have people coming at you in all directions to 'restore service'. You only have only enough qualified manpower to do so. (track laborers! And yes you do need them for track repair and to prevent further damage by someone who doens't know what to look for) and it just become a lone fire fighter battling a blaze with one hydrant working.. yeah it's not going to work well.
Not to quote Bev Scott, but she's right... it is a "Perfect Storm".
So please, stop with your conspiracy theories. We're suffering just as bad as you are.
Edit: edited english for better clarity and getting my point across.
yes, okay, but
suppose all of that is true, and it very well may be. I don't work for the T, so I can only look at things from the outside. why don't they communicate these issues clearly? I think a HUGE part of the public ire against the T, at this point, is its silence. that creates a vacuum into which every possible speck of idle speculation and ill-will is sucked. will people be happy if Beverly Scott comes right out and says all of what you've just said? no, probably not. but will it help them (us) to understand what they're actually grappling with, and to manage their expectations? yeah, I think so.
I certainly agree that the biggest problem the T faces is the lack of investment and corresponding infrastructure collapse. that's something that will take time and effort to fix. in the meantime, however, I really think GM Scott and anyone else working for/with the T needs to be banging the drums. tell us what's wrong, why it's wrong, what you're up against. tell us about the bureaucratic pressure exerted on you. name some names, for crying out loud. people are just going to continue blaming the T, rightly or wrongly, unless the T tells us more clearly what's going on. don't let us speculate.
because
because you have to understand something... you and I are educated. If they told us that, we'd totally understand because we get it.
But many T riders do not. That's the issue.
It's the same issue I face at my job daily. I work on a far different technical level than the users I support. If I tried to explain something complex in techie terms, I'd get lots of eyes glazed over. So I keep it simple and say little or nothing at all. It's not that I don't care, it's just we could be here hours and hours trying to explain every little bit of detail that people don't understand.
Yeah it sucks, but it prevents the 2390-4823048230948023490923448092 questions that will arise from going into more detail.
Plus I'm taking a VERY educated guess on what I know and what really is wrong. I could be 100% wrong. I only know this because I'm a rail fan and make it a point to learn and retain such knowledge. (Ok ok I also know people at the T who tell me things also..)
The T has $5Billion in debt
The T has $5Billion in debt which doesn't include the $4B in interest expense that will be paid on the principle. The maintenance backlog in 2009 was $3B; 5 years later the backlog is probably at least $6B (some think the maintenance work needed will cost $9B). Expansion projects will cost at least $3B.
So the T needs at maybe $12B - $18B from the State; and then maybe another $100M yearly to close operating deficits. Good thing the Olympics are 10 years away.
Okay
You're a conspiracy theorist.
The 1 type-7 rebuilt thus far
The 1 type-7 rebuilt thus far at Alstom was converted to AC traction motors. The entire Green Line fleet will be AC motors when the midlife rebuild program is complete for the type-7s.
The rebuilt Type 7s are
The rebuilt Type 7s are retaining the DC motors, they are not being converted to AC.
The Type 7s
Were never really the problem. Even with their DC motors, they were better designed for these conditions with air intakes mounted relatively high up on the car body (those vents on the side near each end) so they don't usually have issues with snow.
The Globe *finally*
The Globe *finally* investigated the causes of the remaining delays: www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/18/details-remain-scarce-full-service-...
The chart at the bottom says the Green Line has less than 50% of its cars working. It's a worse percentage than the Red or Blue Lines. Of course, with the B and E mostly out of service, there's somewhat less need for trainsets.
However
The T refuses to say why, exactly, the trains are out of order.
For instance, the T hopes to get 20 motors a week for subway cars. Are all of the out of service trains suffering from blown motors, or is it one motor for a 6 car trainset? Does each train need one or 2 fixed motors? Or could the issue on the red line just be snowy rails?
Probably a variety
Probably lots of cars with anywhere from 1-4 bad motors. And at some points, more damage may have been done by continuing to run cars with some motors cut out (or dead cars in trains) thus burning out more motors.
Even if they get lots of contractors working to rebuilding motors, there's going to be issues with just getting them replaced. There's only so many tracks in these shops, only so many cars can get in there at one time. And there's got to be plenty of other issues with cars too by now, not just traction motors.
Sleepy is a Naughty Trolley!
He didn't like his plow, so he shook it, and he banged it ...
Is it me
or has that exact same Sleepy's ad been on the trains since 2008?
I hope Sleepy's is paying to re-up them.
Nope
The ads in 2008 read "Sleepys - for the Rest Of Your Life". The campaign was pulled from the MBTA after the Riverside Line crash in Newton, when the news media kept showing images of the destroyed Green Line streetcar where the operator died, with a Sleepys ad in full view.
The current campaign, which WBZ radio force-feeds us some 80,000 times a morning, is "Sleepys - The ONLY Mattress Professionals".
Work just sent an alert
"At this time there is no time frame for the removal of the trolley."