People in West Roxbury - and Roslindale - who get those blue ValPak envelopes filled with coupons this week got at least one "coupon" that advertises an alleged conspiracy by the "bicycle lobby" and people from outside the neighborhood to destroy West Roxbury by forcing bike lanes onto Centre Street, and down the throats of the good citizens of that leafy neighborhood.
The "coupons" do not indicate who paid for them and do not mention that the city ignored calls to do something about pedestrian problems along the windy four-lane road until a West Roxbury resident walking in a Centre Street crosswalk died after being hit by a motorist who said she was blinded by the sun - at the same intersection where another West Roxbury resident suffered a traumatic brain injury three years earlier when he was hit by a motorist who sped by another driver who had stopped to let him walk across the street.
After an emotional meeting at the West Roxbury Elks Club following Marilyn Wentworth's death, city planners began looking at a proposal to essentially narrow Centre Street to three lanes - one travel lane in each direction and a turning lane in the middle, with pedestrian islands at several intersections.
The proposal would allow for dedicated bike lanes - the street does not currently have any. At a raucous meeting at Holy Name School, some people who do not live in West Roxbury, including the owner of a Jamaica Plain bicycle shop, supported the plan. However, the bulk of bicyclists - or parents of bicyclists - who rose to support the idea gave West Roxbury addresses, and discussed how they tried to avoid Centre Street because it is so dangerous.
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Comments
I am not expecting any
By Murkin
Tue, 10/15/2019 - 10:52pm
I am not expecting any comments on this story until after the Democratic Presidential Debate is over tonight.
Tough Neighborhood
By anon
Tue, 10/15/2019 - 11:13pm
You know you’re in West Roxbury when the guy mugging you pulls out a butter knife.
Tough neighborhood? No, nice neighborhood
By Roztonian
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 8:52am
Not sure what angle you are going after but West Roxbury is a nice neighborhood. Not a lot of muggings because people are working hard, and neighbors looking out for one another (ya know, neighborhood stuff). But make no mistake, there are PLENTY of tough people from West Roxbury. No need to have a knife to be tough.
I'm sure you are a suburban transplant so you wouldn't know but keep trolling.
Neighborhoods that have
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 12:31pm
Neighborhoods that have muggings also have hard working people that look out for one anathor. They just don't live in a Ward that decides elections and gets nice things like WR.
high voter turnouts ward(s) decide electrons - yyyyep
By Roztonian
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 1:59pm
"a ward that decides elections" - oh you mean where people vote? Yes, WR does have one of the highest voter turnouts - and thereby does help to decide elections - that's sort of how it works.
"gets nice things" - like what? This should be interesting.
Next time, when talking about muggings and West Roxbury - try to know something about either one (preferably both).
yikes.
I think you're missing the
By jkarn
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 3:19pm
I think you're missing the sarcasm here. Cut down on the Red Bull intake.
as oppose to what
By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:15pm
Mattapan or Roxbury where the real tough guys are from, oops can't say that might be racist.
or like the little maggots who are beating up bikers on the southwest corridor.
Off topic
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 3:03pm
And racist.
Swrily Bird
By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:01pm
Talk to your buddy that made the comment about using Butter Knife
Deflection
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 7:48pm
... and whataboutism.
You are responsible for what comes out of your keyboard.
Good to see
By Brian Riccio
Sat, 10/19/2019 - 11:28am
things haven't changed much around here!
.
By GenericUsername
Wed, 09/15/2021 - 4:31pm
.
The funny thing is that this
By dvg
Tue, 10/15/2019 - 11:58pm
The funny thing is that this flier may encourage more pro bike lane people to show up at the next meeting to defend the proposal. I would do just that if I lived in West Roxbury!
Is that legal? I thought
By Muerl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 12:11am
Is that legal? I thought that political speech required a "paid for by" notice?
I mean, this also makes me wonder how cheep it is to make up lies and send them to people via ValPak.
It's All A Waste
By BlackKat
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:56am
I did not think anyone did anything with those but toss them directly into the trash. I'm surprised then that someone did in fact open them to discover said slimy notice.
Road Diet? Isn’t that one of
By thomas
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 12:39am
Road Diet? Isn’t that one of those hipster creep vegan things ? Ain’t nobody gonna force ME to diet especially not some freewheeling bikers who think THEY own the road !
Well,
By perruptor
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 6:13am
If you've got a bike lane down your throat, some kind of diet is clearly indicated.
Centre Street is too
By Barbs
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:54am
Centre Street is too dangerous for a bike lane. They recognize that fact, acknowledge it - yet will shove a bike lane onto it anyway so people from the suburbs can bike commute to the city. These bikers provide nothing in return to these cities and towns that bend over backwards to provide them with designated lanes. They don't pay taxes there, they don't shop there, they don't work there. Stop the insanity. Some roads shouldn't have bike lanes. Put them on the side roads if necessary but leave Main Street for the people who actually live, work and shop there.
Bravo
By fungwah
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 8:57am
A pitch-perfect rendition of a clueless motorist. Top-notch satire - my hat's off to you!
The economic impacts are well documented Barb
By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:07am
https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/03/the-comp...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/1...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/12/cyc...
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2012/03/23/why-bicycli...
But unfortunately denial of reality when presented with data seems to be a hallmark for anti-safe road zealot. Like what are you even fighting, this isn't just about bike lanes, its about road safety.
We pay taxes, we travel to other neighborhoods to shop and spend money and we work all over the city.
Some roads shouldn't have bike lanes, I agree. But something tells me you'd oppose bike lanes on side streets once the topic of removing parking comes up, so lets dispense with the idea that this is an honest argument.
Hey, Spin..
By whyaduck
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:28am
have you chatted with some of the business owners on Center St.? There is a reason why they do not wish to having parking spaces removed. Can you guess why?
Let us talk a bit about road safety. As I said to Fung's post, do you wish to have a system that works for everyone, including car drivers (because something tells me that you'd oppose anything that would help their commutes) and cyclists or are you in a take no prisoners frame of mind from reading some of your past posts?
Mind you, before you bash me as an "anti-safe road zealot", I have spent many years, in the past, riding a bike, commuting actually, into the city from the burbs. I see the value in many different forms of commuter transportation and look for solutions within a well reasoned and inclusive discussion.
Except...
By DOT Worker
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:45am
You can fit a heck of a lot more bicycles (10+) in the space that would have occupied just one car. If adequate bicycle parking is provided, more than likely local businesses will see an upswing of pass-through-traffic. As many drivers quickly become frustrated when they 'cant find a parking space', and either keep circling the block, or continue on to another location. With bikes, it is far simpler.
The economical benefits of providing bicycle access are well proven elsewhere. Consider reading some of Swirly's links.
How do the Bike riders
By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:03pm
carry their groceries home in the rain.
In bags
By BostonDog
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:05pm
Just like how they carry groceries when it's not raining.
You've never seen the Dutch
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:58pm
You've never seen the Dutch ride a bike have you? I've seen them move couches on a bike.
Backpacks work wonders.
By DTP
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 6:21pm
Backpacks work wonders.
Also, many people who ride bikes also travel by other means. When I commuted by bike I still drove to the grocery store.
Sure
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 7:50pm
I have a bike trailer. In the summer it tows a cooler and I put the groceries in there. In winter it carries two Ikea bins. Waterproof either way.
What I do
By eekanotloggedin
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 9:33am
I have waterproof panniers. But it rarely rains enough around here for my stuff to be completely soaked riding a mile or so from any of the various grocery stores near me, so I don't usually bother to close them up all the way unless it's pouring. On one of my bikes I just have rear baskets, and the groceries barely get wet in the couple minutes I'm outside. If I were walking, I would have the stuff in open tote-type bags, and it would take me 15 minutes or so to get home rather than 2, so my stuff would get wetter.
I've got a rack on the side
By Matt
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 12:55pm
I've got a rack on the side of my bike with a pannier. The food goes in that. I don't need a 4000lb metal rain coat.
How do you get food from the store to your car and from your car to your house when it rains?
I mean, its like anti-bike bingo with comments so far
By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:48am
And of course, this more about just bike lanes and I have constantly advocated for the wider range of transit options for commuters and citizens, you aren't paying enough attention.
Reducing car travel lanes and parking is a matter of convenience for motorists, sticking with the status quo is a safety issue for others. Again another reactionary talking point that pits pedestrians, cycling and other mobility advocates to fight over the crumbs left over from car infra. Sorry, car infra has been rammed down the throats of communities for decades, balancing that out while improving safety for others isn't an assault on business.
Can I guess why businesses don't want to lose free 2 hour parking? Gee I just can't imagine it being about convenience and entitlement, also its 16 out of 221 spots being removed. Perhaps market rates are in order for the high demand of parking here.
Also are we talking about parking or commutes now? Because commute times in the linked articles is shown to grow no more than 1.8 minutes along this corridor. If the concern is about traffic congestion, well then again we can institute market rate congestion pricing.
Spin I thought you were from Brighton
By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:39pm
or Newton why do you care about the Parkway Area. Do you have a bike shop, Bikes not Bombs in JP????
Do you not get out and explore other neighborhoods?
By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:07pm
But let me answer your question directly, why do I care about the Parkway Area?
Simple, I have empathy for the victims of road violence and car-centric road design, so any efforts to curb that in my neighborhood, other neighborhoods or other communities is well worth support. Its not just about where I live, work, ride, walk and drive, its about others too.
I do not have a bike shop, I choose to travel to different ones in different neighborhoods when I feel like exploring and stimulating local neighborhood economies, Bikes Not Bombs being one of them.
Simple question for you Red, if West Roxbury wants safe streets but not through road diets, how do they get safe streets?
First,
By perruptor
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 7:27pm
First, we kill all the
lawyerspedestrians and cyclists.Parking
By BostonDog
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:01am
I remember when they were redoing Mass Ave in East Arlington. My barber (who's awesome) told every customer how angry he was at the loss of spaces along. He said he feared it would put him out of business.
The project happened regardless and now years later he can't keep up with all the customers he has. Now he complains about how he never gets a rest.
I would listen to business owners but weight their views with other locals and experienced traffic engineers. People greatly exaggerate the need for parking, particularly business owners.
The City's proposal removes
By cden4
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:04am
The City's proposal removes 16 out of 221 parking spaces. Many of these are too close to crosswalks and removing them will improve visibility of people crossing the street. If you haven't noticed, pedestrians keep getting killed by cars here.
Oh
By BostonDog
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:13am
If you haven't noticed, my car was rated as one of the safest and I'm in a hurry so don't do anything which might possibly slow me down. Also, I don't know anyone who was killed by a car personally so it can't really be a problem.
Sincerely,
A typical Masshole driver
PS. I have an important job and/or kids so only listen to me.
"There is a reason why they
By Trevor C.
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:37am
"There is a reason why they do not wish to having parking spaces removed. Can you guess why?"
Is it because they don't understand that people on bicycles also buy things?
If bike lanes are such a good thing
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:52pm
Then why are the ones I see on a daily basis during my commute so devoid of cyclists?
"The productivity of the system is measured by throughput"
By spin_o_rama
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 12:28pm
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/04/01/why-bike-la...
lol so people from far flung
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:27am
lol so people from far flung suburbs will bike straight through, never stopping for coffee, stuff at CVS, using a bank, etc, because lord knows stopping your bike and hopping in for an errand is really tough...... but LOCAL people definitely drive everywhere, because there's so much parking, and it's so convenient to go very short distances in your car in the traffic of centre street, so they're stopping at every tom dick and harry's on their way to travel four blocks from home to work.....
dude, what
If only!
By Anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:39am
Oh, if only all those suburbanites would ride their bikes into the city instead of driving!
I'm not sure how I feel about all the Centre St. changes, but if a bike lane there somehow encouraged people to stop using the neighborhood as a cut-through from the suburbs to the city, I would be all for it.
Yeah, I really look forward
By hollydollydoo
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:39pm
Yeah, I really look forward to biking everywhere, especially from December-June, when it's snowing,raining or just plain too *&)(*&)&) cold. That's six months out of the year.
Too cold? Bundle up.
By DTP
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 8:42am
Too cold? Bundle up.
I commuted by bike all through the winter of 2015. It wasn't that hard, you just wear warm clothes.
Literally no one is asking
By MattyC
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 10:19am
Literally no one is asking you to get on a bike, princess.
I don't need a 4000lb jacket.
By Matt
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 1:03pm
I don't need a 4000lb jacket. People ski outside in winter for fun, it's very much possible to comfortably bike year round.
“These bikers”
By Mark-
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:46am
I drive, I bike, I walk, I take the bus. I’m a person, not a “biker.” But when I’m on Centre St., I’m usually in a car and I’m not too happy about it. The street parking spaces are a pain to use as are the four lanes of traffic because you constantly have to weave to avoid the cars that are double-parked or attempting to squeeze into a rare open space. The curb bumpers from the last redesign are a pain that force buses to stop in the travel lanes. Nothing is good for bicyclists who have to share a narrow car lane with all the weavers, parkers, and buses.
I much prefer the off-street parking and there should be more of it. As a driver, I’d like to see the dedicated turn lanes and a lot less street parking. Going from 4 lanes to 2 (plus a turn lane) would be a much smoother ride, like Belgrade Ave. As for bikes, look around you in other neighborhoods. JP, Allston, even Dorchester and Roslindale are a lot more bike-friendly than WR, and the result is a lot more cycling, safer roads for everyone, busier bus routes, and businesses doing just fine.
Centre street was not created to have 4 lanes
By cinnamngrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:47am
It was 2 driving lanes and 2 street car lanes. Those street cars allowed people to move quickly through WRox without a car. Back then WRox had a higher population but less cars. The street has devolved into a safety hazard. These changes serve local residents. The parking spaces that will be removed are too close to the intersections to be safe even in the current configuration.
You mean 6 lanes....don't
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:28am
You mean 6 lanes....don't forget about the free for life parking on both sides of the street that car owners feel entitled to. And yes, I am a car owner.
So the road Diet 7 Lanes
By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:11pm
2 Parking lanes for business owners and customers that help our vibrant economy
2 Driving Lanes
1 Turn Left Lane
2 Bike lanes for outsiders driving through that add NOTHING to the Parkway Area's economy
You seem to have a boner for
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:03pm
You seem to have a boner for "OUTSIDERS." Let's just get this out there...WR isn't a destination spot. It has banks, pizza shops and nail salons. It closes up at 8pm. The "outsiders" you're worried about aren't coming.
WR has always been known to not like outsiders...I'll just leave that there.
After hours
By Mark-
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 7:54am
The 7-Eleven is open 24 hours a day. Which is more than I can say for 99% of the rest of Boston.
Oh you said the special economy word
By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:03pm
Funny thing about that and bike lanes:
https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/03/the-comp...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/1...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/12/cyc...
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2012/03/23/why-bicycli...
I almost would not care
By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:21pm
If they cut down the lanes and put in the turn lanes. The thing that bothers me is the Bike Lanes. what does that have to do with safety??? I mean it's just somehtiing else you have to look out for. This is going nowhere,
It's safety for people that
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:50pm
It's safety for people that are trying to get off the road to help reduce congestion for people that feel they can't live without their car. Car owners aren't the end all be all. It's just that we are so used to getting everything we want...for some it's hard to accept that times are a changing.
We should thank the people that want to bike, walk, skate, or take the T to work.
So would it be alright if
By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:45pm
I use my Horse and Buggy to commute, or just my horse the buggy might congest the road.
Skate?? Rollerblades and Skateboards, what about scooters and electric scooters
Keep sticking your head in the sand Red
By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 3:06pm
Countless links have been shared with you about the safety benefits of bike lanes that are not exclusive to those riding bikes.
Also if looking out for bikes is such a burden on you, please consider turning in your license because you shouldn't be driving.
Math lesson
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 3:44pm
Which is bigger:
10,000 or 5?
300 or 1/2?
Motor vehicle crashes kill around 30,000 people per year in the US and 1/3 are pedestrians. Cycle crashes with pedestrians? About 5 per year.
Somewhere around 300 pedestrians per year in MA are killed by motorists. I'm being generous with the 1/2 for the local toll for cyclists - it has been a while in Boston, and it runs about 2-3 a year in NYC.
And how many
By GrampaNurgle
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 8:52pm
Of those deaths are caused by murderous drivers(c)Kinopio&Co and not by people’s own stupidity? You know, things like dashing out into traffic without looking, running red lights, blowing past large trucks on the right at a busy intersection, etc.
And I readily admit there are idiot drivers out there, but maybe, just maybe, it makes sense to really crack down on that small subset instead of making every driver’s life miserable? Because you see, a speeding drunkard will run you down on a six lane busy street or a one and a half car lane and ten bike lane utopian superhighway, makes no difference to him.
#victimblaming #whataboutism
By DTP
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 8:43am
#victimblaming
#whataboutism
Roads are for people, not
By MattyC
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 10:21am
Roads are for people, not cars. If people want to gallop down Centre St. on a horse, its legal, so be my guest. Just stop at the lights.
They say the road diet plan
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 7:12am
is all about safety especially because the woman was hit and killed. The reason the woman was hit was because of solar glare. Making the road one lane each way would not have helped in that situation. I saw a woman and her daughter almost get hit by a car in Brookline crossing a two lane road. The traffic on the other side was bumper to bumper and stopped. They walked into a crosswalk between two of those cars and a driver in front of me had to slam on his brakes because he didn't see them until they came into our lane from between the cars. I'll admit that I often don't see pedestrians crossing Centre until I'm already going through the crosswalk. The only real way to protect pedestrians is with flashing crossing lights which I hope they put in whether the road diet goes through or not.
Almost there, you're getting close
By fungwah
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:00am
So, visibility is bad and traffic goes too fast through there to be able to stop in time for pedestrians? Hmm, sounds like maybe something could be done to, I don't know, slow down cars and ensure that they're traveling a safe speed even if there's glare or other visibility issues. Now, what are some effective measures that are known to cause drivers to slow down, even more than just installing more signs...
And the award for most snarky goes to...
By Roztonian
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:06am
Good Lord, if you are trying to get people on your side, try to dial back the enlightened, elitist, anti-car snarkiness.
Road diet. Haha.
Sorry for not coddling dangerous drivers I guess?
By fungwah
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:44am
The OP literally mentioned that they regularly blow through crosswalks on Centre with people in them because "they didn't see them" but yeah sure a snarky tone is the real problem here, some great priorities for sure
Ok, fung..
By whyaduck
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:15am
I will assume that you live in West Roxbury and/or frequent the area quite often. No?
So with that assumption in mind, let us look at your assumptions.
1. Visibility is bad and traffic goes too fast, to stop in time for pedestrians.
If you frequent the area, you know that the traffic moves so slowly there, at times, because of the congestion. In fact, unless you are traveling through in the early morning hours, the street is usually slow going.
Aside from this unfortunate accident, which looks like it was due to solar glare, most traffic stops for pedestrians or we would have more dead bodies.
Thus,
2. Slowing down traffic
This is the newest bike zealot talking point. Hey, lets slow down the cars. Ok, we are at, what 25mph in the city now? And yet this woman was hit. Slowing down traffic is not going to do anything to stop congestion, which makes more frustrated drivers, which does not make commuting better for anyone, bike or car.
3. Solutions?
We have a road network that no longer can support the amount of traffic (and this is due to a myriad of reasons). We have a generally crappy and not convenient public transportation system. Making traffic move slower is not going to solve these problems.
If you frequent the area, you
By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:34am
No, traffic moves super fast, it's just a cycle of SPEED-STOP-SPEED-STOP, combined with people double parking, clogging up traffic making left hand turns, etc, which then encourages people to switch lanes back and forth during their SPEED phase.
removing lights but forcing people to not drive as fast will be a wash for car drivers but will allow them to drive in a way that's safer for everyone else.
This entire comment is making
By Miss M
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 10:38am
This entire comment is making me wonder if you ever actually drive on Centre St.
1) No one follows the 25 mph speed limit. I try to and what usually happens is I get tailgated, then sped around in either the right or left lane.
2) More than once I've stopped to let someone cross the street and had the person in the other lane blow right through the crosswalk. More than once I've been crossing a crosswalk on Centre. St and had a car speed past me after a car in one lane had stopped for me. Saying "most traffic stops for pedestrians" is like saying "most cars don't get into accidents, so kids don't need car seats." You're saying a dead body every three years or so doesn't matter.
And your solution is...do nothing? Great, super helpful.
How pedestrians get hit on Centre Street
By adamg
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:11am
More than once I've stopped to let someone cross the street and had the person in the other lane blow right through the crosswalk.
This.
Yes, the poor woman in February was hit by a woman allegedly blinded by solar glare, but I don't know what they're teaching in driver's ed these days, but I learned that if you can't see because the sun's in your eyes, you slow the hell down.
In any case, the man who had his head smashed into the pavement three years earlier at the same exact intersection, who has also spoken at community meetings, so it's not like it's some big secret, was hit because of a driver who didn't bother to wonder why another driver had stopped at that intersection.
Public Service Announcement
By tachometer
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 3:32pm
I want to be clear that I am not victim blaming but am sharing a piece of safety advice that might help prevent others from getting into an accident or hurt.
When the sun is low, whether you are driving a car, on a motorcycle, bicycle or walking, keep in your mind that "Your shadow points to the people who can't see you."
When you are looking towards the person who can't see you your vision is crystal clear because the sun is behind you so it's easy to assume that they can see you just as well which can be a devastating mistake.
What about Count Dracula
By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:21pm
Vampires have no shadows or reflections in a mirror.
Also a Flame has not shadow.
A person who cast no shadow has no soul
Only cross the street a night
Tip stay off you cell phone and stop drinking a Beverages when crossing the street and look
both ways like you mother told you. That's all out the window if it is a Bike bearing down on you because they don't stop anyway.
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