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Citizen complaint of the day: Why does John Kerry get historic gas lamps while Dorchester gets ugly concrete poles that drive down property values?
By adamg on Wed, 09/06/2023 - 10:40am
The nerve of John Kerry living a couple blocks from this busted gas lamp.
An outraged citizen who lives in Dorchester files a 311 complaint about the 311 complaint somebody else filed about a gas lamp on Revere Street on Beacon Hill that is not working correctly:
Why does John Kerry, the Climate Czar’s Beacon Hill neighborhood still have gas powered street lamps? How is this climate-friendly? Why are my property taxes paying for these fancy street lamps? Boston is one of the oldest cities in America. These lights were everywhere. But in Dorchester we now have ugly cement street lights that decrease the property value of our homes.
In fact, the city is studying replacing gas lamps with LED simulacrums.
Earlier:
When John Kerry got a ticket for not shoveling his sidewalk.
Neighborhoods:
Free tagging:
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Comments
Just wait …
Just wait until you don’t see his fire hydrant.
It's still there
It was just moved around the corner. You can see it by clicking on the snow-shoveling link.
That was a win-win
The hydrant was moved - at Kerry's expense - to a better location for both its intended use and for freeing up parking space.
Not sure why this is still a thing.
I need a visual
I would love to see those horrific ugly cement street lights so I can judge for myself.
I’ve no answer for this 311 complainant.
I wouldn’t see gas street lights as property value enhancing though.
A friend who owns a property in the South End has one leaning perilously close to one of her trees. I think the last time I was there it had been converted to electric. If not, it needs to be.
I remember seeing functioning gas lamps on St James Court in Roxbury about 10 years ago.
I think conversion is affected by practicalities of access as well as the quaintness factor.
All I can say to is I’m glad my building is gas and oil free. My street is not brightly lit but you can still see restless insomniac seagulls gliding up and down at all hours in the glow of their smartphones.
OK, that does it ...
I need to finally break down and take a photo of Roslindale's one gas lamp (well, that I know of). It's semi-hidden behind a block of stores on Belgrade Avenue (the block with Obosa, for you Rozzie fans).
Google
You can just catch it on Google Street view looking down the driveway.
While some find these quaint, another use of these is to help balance the pressure and assure flow in the gas lines.
Similar in the subways. Look up some time and find the lights that have a warning sign on them of "Danger - 600 Volts." These are emergency lights powered by the 3rd rail DC power supply, so if the local power goes out and the 3rd rail is working you will still have some lights to help you out.
That's a new one. Have a cite
That's a new one. Have a cite that the gas lamps are important to for pressure and flow? How do the 99.9% of Massachusetts streets with gas service but no gas streetlights manage?
Also note that Boston's current gas lamps were installed in the 1960s as an attempt to go retro.
Maybe some of the actual poles are older, and originally were gas, then converted to electric, then converted back to gas. Does anyone know for sure?
Here and there are some cast iron poles, like this sadly neglected one at Brookline Ave/Riverway. As far as I can tell, this is a real historic pole, not a replica.
Speaking of cast iron poles...
I have one of those at the end of my street in Dorchester/Mattapan. It's at the top of the hill and doesn't have a light on it. I always thought it served as an anchor for the wooden electric and now cable service poles. I don't think we are talking about the same thing though. The one on my street is much thicker and more utilitarian looking.
Kneeland Street maybe?
Seems to me there used to be some cast iron light poles on Kneeland Street. I remember one in particular outside Jake Wirth's, and the reason I remember it was because of something I saw while walking by there one evening. There was a very drunk man had either been tossed or refused entrance by the bouncer. He was ranting and swearing and carrying on and waving his arms and screaming, and in the midst of this tirade he spun around 180 degrees and punched that light pole as hard as he could, straight from the shoulder. It's a testament to just how whistled he was that he had no reaction and just went right on screaming, but the bystanders (and there were a lot) all gasped in horror.
I can only imagine what he felt like the next day.
adam, you are a ….
…. light in the darkness.
This.......
There is a small part of the Mission Hill neighborhood in Roxbury where I used to live that still has gas lamps. They're mostly in some driveways, probably due to houses and property lines getting larger, but they're there. I think the city deeded them to the owners, maybe. To expensive to remove, you know? Plus they don't pay the gas. Maybe the neighborhood has an hoa that makes them pay part of the gas cost. You never know. Not really a big deal, just more worrying about the life of the rich, which doesn't mean a damned thing to me.
I had a gaslight in the alley of my prior South End
home, burning continuously night and day for 20 years, illuminating the building's row of trash bins. So... quaint? Still there, for all I know.
If you don't mind my asking
Where is it? I've lived in the South End for 36 years and I've never seen one, so I'd like to check it out.
Check out the alley …
.. between Ringgold and Shawmut. Though it may be electric or defunct by now.
You'll spot them in a bunch of the alleys
between buildings in the Eight Streets neighborhood. (I'd rather not pinpoint my old address.)
Beacon Hill gas lamps
Beacon hill gas lamps aren’t even a historical thing; if I recall correctly they were installed in about 1970 because they look cool and quaint and old or something, and not for reasons of historical accuracy. Most people I know favor conversion to electric, but it’s a horrendous job because there’s no electric power reasonably close to many of the lamp poles.
Or something
I think you answered your own question.
There were electric lights before…
There were electric lights before the gas lamps. Presumably the wires that fed the old electric lights went away when the poles were taken out
Wires
Those wires would be 50 years old now if they were new in when you say the lamps went in. There are a lot of sand filled conduit buried under the streets of Beacon Hill with very old wires. You wouldn't want to be using what was in place then.
There are gas lamps around Beacon Hill that predate the majority of the ones you see around now. As I recall there are a few in Cedar Lane Way.
You’d be surprised just how …
… much more safe some old electrical wiring is. So tell me a couple of electricians.
Depends on the wiring.
Depends on the wiring. Installed in the 50s-70s, you're running the risk of aluminum, which is horrendous. Older than that, sure, it's probably fine, especially if you're only running a few LEDs for street lights. Maybe supplement with poles that have solar incorporated and you're not talking about much power draw at all.
Would it be nice if the city committed to pulling up sidewalks on a block by block basis and start addressing all the nests of infrastructure underneath? Mismatched old wiring, leaky gas pipes, illegal splices, foundations balancing on beams that are balanced on a single cinder block, etc, etc? Absolutely. Are they going to? Absolutely not. And who can blame them - plenty of houses in Boston are still running on original cloth-wrapped copper and other pre-romex inventions, and old cast iron sewer laterals, because rewiring and repiping and all of that is BIG $$$$$$$$. Hell, some are still running on knob and tube, despite what the flipper who ripped out all the wood trim in your house to paint it gray told you ;)
Fake history
That was a thing for a while. If you told all the tourists that flock to Faneuil Hall and surrounding areas that ye olde cobblestones they are walking on were actually installed there circa 1981, it might ruin their vacation.
What did Beacon Hill have before 1970
if it didn't have gas lamps, and there was no electricity available for street lighting?
My guess is that a lot of the
My guess is that a lot of the power connections for the old streetlights were lost when Beacon Hill's overhead lines were buried.
There was electricity back then.
The street lights were on poles, many with aerial wires feeding them
I lived on Beacon Hill in the ‘70s.
I recall their installation being reported on in the Beacon Hill News.
Yes they are historical
The first gas lamps in Boston were installed in 1828. The city didn't fully convert to gas lighting until the 1880s. Gas was used to light streetlamps until the 1950s when it was replaced in most areas by electricity.
Quaint Beacon Hill has been electrified for a few generations
Actually, electricity came to Bacon Hill quite early:
Edison Illuminating Company of Boston [incorporated circa 1885] just a couple of years after Edison's Canal Street power plant in NYC [1883]
EIC of Bos was a pioneer in underground wiring and electric street lighting
L Street Power Plant [circa 1898] one of the most efficient and largest at the time
other electric companies in Boston --- all eventually became part of Boston Edison [later Nstar] and today's Eversource
There is one in Dorchester
There is one in Dorchester that I know of. It’s down an alley on Jones Hill. Doubt that the city even knows about it
Sounds like...
Sounds like someone needs one real problem to cry about and one less ax to grind.
Enough with the ….
… machete talk, please!
Filed under
Who cares. As long as light shines from whatever is up there I’m good.
Who cares indeed
Sounds like, “so long as the damage being done is global, diffuse, and not right in my face, I’m good.” Amirite?
Beacon Hill is a National Historic Landmark
and it is within the City of Boston Beacon Hill Architectural District. It is nearly impossible to change virtually anything in the exterior of buildings, and the sidewalks and street lamps have similar protection. For what it's worth, the Kerry/Heinz residence contributes real estate taxes to the City of Boston in excess of $180,000 per year. There is no insidious conspiracy behind the gas lamps in that neighborhood.
And here's the kicker ...
Even though John Kerry has nothing to do with the street lamps in his area, you better believe that the same people whinging about this would throw an apocalyptic tantrum should they be converted from gas to electric, blame Kerry, and then throw Al Gore into the mix.
We do have a few fancy gas lamps in Dorchester though
The Wellesley Park neighborhood has them. And there are two on Rundel Park off Ashmont St, there's a historic Fitzgerald family (of JFK) home there.
Historic Fitzgerald Home?
The one at the end of the street on the right?
They were Rose's nephews or nieces or something like that.
It is like saying the house where Jordan and John Knight's cousins lived is historic.
My wife is a direct descendent of John Proctor and has a common ancestor with Abraham Lincoln. It is not like our house is historic. It's nice and old, but not historic.
Whoop dee do!
You married well, Costermonger.
Every human on Earth has a
Every human on Earth has a common ancestor with Abraham Lincoln.
John, is that the branch of
John, is that the branch of the Fitzgeralds that JFK sent someone to borrow the Fitz family Bible for the oath of office in 1961?
Dorchester does have, some gas lights
Dorchester has a few gas street lights left, both original and 1970 reproductions. Check out Wellesey Park and some of the small side streets by Tech Boston (former Dorchester High building) .
Rozella Street
between Adams and Elmdale. (right behind the Mary Hemenway School site, which is now a playground)
Anyone else in favor of doing
Anyone else in favor of doing more to decrease property values in the neighborhoods of Boston? Maybe we need more ugly cement street lights.
2800 public gas lights
There are 2800 public gas lights in Boston with plans to convert to LED. https://thescopeboston.org/8742/news-and-features/features/boston-to-swi...
Let's pave Acorn Street while we're at it
Just do away with all non-essential charm.
Acorn street isn’t doing any damage
Acorn street isn’t doing any damage, aside from the occasional twisted ankle. The gas lamps, on the other hand… the problem isn’t really the carbon load so much as the tons of methane that leak from the creaky, vulnerable spiderweb of gas pipes, many well over 100 years old, that constitute the delivery network. Methane is a particularly bad actor with regard to the greenhouse effect.
I’ve seen LED replacements. They look pretty good. Yeah, if you look closely, they’re fake, but then again, the gas lamps themselves are fake in the sense of being a retro project rather than a preservation one.
LEDs can hurt my eyes.
Too strong. It’s not an unusual problem for many people.
But maybe they make toned down ones. I haven’t been blinded by any LED replacements but can’t say if I’ve seen any yet.
I like the idea.
Flicker is an issue
An issue with LEDs is flicker -- the control circuit adjusts the brightness by (I'm oversimplifying) switching the power on and off very quickly -- for brighter light, the power is on for more of the cycle and off for less of it, and vice versa. Different quality LED control circuits operate at different frequencies -- the higher the frequency, the fewer people notice the flicker. But there are other effects -- fast moving objects take on a kind of stroboscopic look.
Like the old fluorescents ….
… did.
Thanks for the explanation. I thought it was the concentrated light. But even slow flickering light such as a ceiling fan with light above can set me off on a migraine. So that makes sense. The headlights on new cars make walking at night torture sometimes.
Not quite
No. The flicker has to do with the constant flow of electricity to them. Fluctuation in the power to the LED causes flicker. This is common with AC power (hence the name "Alternating Current).
Want to remove flicker? Get a power source that doesn't drop out. (meaning have a decent transformer) or use DC power.
Correct
Bob was incorrectly assuming DC source power and PWM to control luminosity.
Yes.
Nobody's driving LEDs with DC, for good and practical reasons. There's a nonlinear relationship between input voltage and brightness. In particular, there's a so-called "ignition voltage" below which the LED produces no light at all. So if you want dimmable, you end up going with PWM. Take a look at the circuitry for a typical LED driver. They rectify the AC to DC, and then generate a PWM waveform to drive the LEDs themselves. Good ones are way up there, maybe nearly 1 mHz, which is gonna be indistinguishable from steady light. Cheaper ones just use the line frequency (60 Hz) or double it. Above a few hundred HZ and nobody can possibly see the flicker except if you toss fast-moving things around, and then you don't see the flicker, you see the stroboscopic stop-motion effect.
LEDs
Bay Village is supposed to have some installed last year.
https://www.universalhub.com/2022/boston-getting-led-powered-gas-lamps
Charlestown gas lights
Boston Gas was underway with an installation project that ended when they were acquired 20 odd years or so, we still have them otherwise
Bad Science: Methane is not any worse than other GHG
All of the polyatomic molecules [3+atoms] found in the earth's atmosphere function as Green House Gases {GHG} because of their strong absorption of outgoing IR emission at temperatures encountered in the earth's atmosphere
Actually, by far the most important Green House Gas is H20 as there is whole lot more H2O in the atmosphere than all of the other GHG combined.
The reason all the attention is directed at CO2 is that CO2 is always a gas whereas H20 is mostly a liquid on the earth's surface as well as some as ice and as cloud and precipitation droplets in the atmosphere. With no plausible means of blaming humans for the H20 -- the neo-Malthusians needed another target.
CO2 seemed ideal for their purposes as it was easy to measure and its atmospheric concentration had been increasing over the past few decades [although at one time it was much higher] -- most carbon on the earth's surface is locked up as limestone [e.g. the White Cliffs of Dover, Carlsbad Caverns, etc.]
CH4 [methane] is mostly a gas although it exists at the bottom of the ocean as an ice-like Methane clathrate (CH4·5.75H2O) -- a hybrid form of the CH4 dissolved in H20 under extreme pressure and low temperature and loosely chemically combined.
from wikipedia