South Boston Lithuanian club to owners of neighboring condo: We're not doing the bad stuff you claim, we were here first and what did you expect moving near West Broadway?
The South Boston Lithuanian Citizens Association yesterday asked a judge to deny a request by two neighbors that he shut it down immediately, saying that even if they could make the case that events and patrons at the group's West Broadway home were excessively noisy and rowdy - which it says they can't - the harm to the association would far outweigh any problems the couple is having.
Adam and Shelby Burns, who in 2016 purchased a condo on E Street at Athens Street, behind the association's four-story building at 368 West Broadway, filed suit in Suffolk Superior Court on Thursday, charging noise and rowdiness by drunken, drugged patrons at and after events has gotten so bad they sometimes try to find alternative places to sleep when they learn of upcoming events. They filed affidavits by two West Broadway residents to support their claim; one of the two said things have gotten so bad he's had to sell his condo.
Along with their suit, the Burnses filed a request for a temporary restraining order that would prohibit the association from renting out its facilities to outside group while their suit is pending - including several events scheduled for this month.
Suffolk Superior Court Judge Debra Squires-Lee scheduled a hearing yesterday afternoon on the couple's request for a temporary restraining order to bar any events at the association facility while their case is pending. Court records as of today have yet to be updated with the results of her hearing.
In an answer to the complaint, the association's lawyer, Scott Clifford, offered a series of arguments against any sort of pre-trial injunction, starting with the basic "We were here first."
The association purchased the building - in which it uses the top two floors - in 1949. Clifford cited a 1992 Massachusetts Appeals Court ruling involving a couple who moved next to a bakery that had been there for decades, which in turn cited a 1914 Supreme Judicial Court ruling involving a group of summer-cottage owners who sued the granite company they moved next to. In that case, the state's highest court concluded: "No one can move into a quarter given over to foundries and boiler shops and demand the quiet of a farm."
Clifford noted the nature of West Broadway: "The area in question is lined with many commercial establishments up and down West Broadway including several restaurants, bars and nightclubs."
In an affidavit, an association official said the club is in full compliance with Boston and state noise regulations and that, after a BPD licensing detective urged the association to buy a meter to monitor noise levels around the building during events, it did, and now has an employee walk around the building hourly with the meter to make sure any noise isn't excessive.
He added that the association videoed the employee walking around taking the readings - one of the Burnses' complaints was that the facility manager has taken to harassing them, including by videoing them both on the street and in their home. The association also has somebody clean up any trash after events, he wrote.
Clifford continued that the association relies on leases by outside groups to support itself and maintain the building and that barring events would immediately jeopardize its finances. He charged the the Burnses' attorney failed to provide a single case to justify harming the association to that extent, let alone to show that the association owes them some sort of legal duty to completely shield them from annoyances he says aren't happening, or in legal terms, that "the gravity of the alleged harm outweighs the utility of the Defendants' conduct in the use of the Premises."
Complete answer (3.3M PDF).
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Comments
Summer cottages hardly compare …
…. with city housing which so many claim is desperately needed in Boston.
Even if this housing may likely be not so needed luxury housing it appears to be primary housing.
Whatever the outcome of this case, it would behoove the club to keep a tighter rein on what goes on during private events and observe noise ordinances.
MUFFY TEMPERMAN ALERT !!!!
MUFFY TEMPERMAN ALERT!!!
Weird non-sensical retort followed by the word behoove.
The law is on the club's side there buddy.
I am sorry if you don't get the reference to Muffy. I know you were in you late 30's in the early 80's.
Isn’t Muffy the weird nonsensical name you taunt the pigeons…
… with on the Common as you tie their feet together with string?
I Never Said That...Check the Tape
So, perhaps some ginseng root might be advisable on your end.
However, it is a fact that you laughed at homeless people lighting themselves on fire. Such a subhuman way to get joy by you.
Tepperman not Temperman
Muffy's last name did not have an "m" in it.
Square Pegs
Muffy Tepperman was the prototypical preppy/Karen who minded everyone else's business other than her own. She was played by Jami Gertz.
Queen of the HOA
Were she a real person, we all know how that she'd be using HOA powers to harass people as a mid-life adult.
Thanks
Great, now I have the "Square Pegs" jingle stuck in my head…
Just another misogynist stereotype then.
TV land is full of them.
You know when this show aired, right?
Hint: well before the Bechdel Test.
Regardless of outcome?
How about, if the club is in the right, the behoovery bus moves along and the club continues on as before?
Not sure if it's available
I'm pretty sure the behoovery bus is being used as a shuttle for the MBTA at the moment.
did they buy their condo without any research or visits?
Did they not know where their condo was when they bought it?
I remember a couple buying a house behind a bar parking lot and complaining about the car noise and demanding the bar change its business hours (they lost)
They probably never expected
They probably never expected rowdy Lithuanians in a building like that(it looks like a New York walk up), in South Boston. When is the South Boston Lithuanian parade? Do they march to the Polish triangle?
No…
…they march to the beat of a different drummer ;-)
do u remember
The guy who married his husband and then moved to Bay Village next to Jacques, the oldest drag bar in the country, and then promptly tried shut it down because he didn’t wanna have to explain to his son what a drag queen is. Dude wouldn’t even have been able to marry his husband if it hadn’t been for the drag queens in Stonewall and elsewhere. And if he’s not capable of explaining what a drag queen is to his son then he’s not fit to be a father.
My mom only needed six words
My mom only needed six words to explain drag queens to little pre-teen me: “some men enjoy dressing as women:”‘ She went on to say that some do it just for themselves and some make a big party out of it. It’s not hard. I found the explanation entirely satisfactory.
Exactly
Said this my 6 year old when we were in PTown after he asked my if that was a man in a dress. I said yes. He said ok and he’s a well functioning adult.
Ditto for my sons
When they were preteens and we visited P-town we told them that there would be people playing dress-up, including men dressed as women. After all, drag queens and transwomen are not the only ones playing dress up in P-town.
Our only admonition was that it was impolite to stare, gawk, or point.
Later that fall, our younger son drew a comparison to my incorrigible tomboy self dressing up for business meetings. The term "business drag" entered our household lexicon.
Its only people having fun with clothing and make up. It doesn't hurt anyone.
Housing Research
Social media is full of people posting regrets having purchased or rented in parts of Boston. Some are coming here sight-unseen, and of that it appears a majority have no concept or experience living in an urban setting. Their concept of "downtown" is more like Walpole Center.
The same side of the same coin are those coming here based on luxury photos from a real estate broker only to find they have rented a roach motel. They sign in and 30 days later the landlord or their hired henchmen start pestering them to sign a lease for the following year with deposits as well. And if they fail to sign they want to start showing the apartment ASAP. Poor people are not even unboxed yet.
The city needs more housing but that also seems to be fueling more unscrupulous landlord and management companies. The sight-unseen crowd is an ancillary part of the problem.
As to rowdiness BEHIND the club, how are they tracking that these people are coming from that club as opposed to falling out and rolling down from other nearby establishments?
Interesting that they can afford an attorney and had the cash to file such a suit as well. Sounds very "Karen-like."
People near me have purchase regrets because a rail line is close by that they knew noting about. That was cleverly left out of the real estate presentation. Their viewing was done on a Sunday between passing trains. Do they have a case against the realtor? Maybe, but after the move do they have the cash to hire the right attorney?
The city is presently seeking to require additional disclosure to the unsuspecting public. It will be interesting to see if the real estate associations spend $$$ to oppose that.
No one is above reproach, no matter how much good they may do
Pere Marquette K of C became a major problem for their neighbors at N and Broadway in the early 80's. They disrespected everyone, and ignored pleas from abutters with legitimate complaints. It ultimately led to the sale of their building and relocating to a relative shack on Old Colony, after older members who weren't around so much got wind of what was going on. This situation is very reminiscent. In the 80's, newcomers were derisively referred to as DINK's (double income, no kids). Most who stayed eventually did have kids, and are now the "older people" who the current newcomers love to hate. If the Lithuanian Club doesn't open their eyes and ears and consider mediation, they may not lose outright, but they will be under serious scrutiny and on a much tighter leash.
party on, Lithuanians
these blow-ins are going to move out of the city anyways
It's like a story my dad told me
In the 1970s he served on the Planning Board in Burlington, a town that was long known for its pig farming and ham production. A group of residents, mostly folks who had recently relocated to the "country" from Medford, Charlestown, Malden, and Somerville, etc. and recently purchased houses in a new subdivision next to one of the last remaining pig farms in town. They petitioned Board of Health to shut the farm down due to the stench that would waft over to their neighborhood when the wind blew certain way, and when the Board of Health didn't give them what they wanted, they petitioned the Planning Board to introduce an article to Town Meeting to rezone the farm. Both boards had to gently tell them that they had no power to do so, due to it being in an agricultural zone and meeting the health standards of the day. The Planning Board reminded them that the pig farm had been there for more than a century before their street was even built and that the'd just have to wait it out until the owner of the farm asked for it to be rezoned (which happened in the late 1980s when McCarthy Drive was built in its place)
VT too
Stories like this are common in VT, also, when city folk (generally from NYC) buy a country home in VT - close to a milking facility that starts up at 4 AM.
Some naive people think agricultural land ….
… is nature. Far from it.
As if we need highly polluting inhumane ….
… pig farms in MA.
Glad it’s gone.
Yup
Now the pork Bay Staters consume comes from factory farms in places like Iowa and North Carolina.
Problem solved.
For people who eat that crap.
For the time being.
I'm halal
But I also don't turn my nose up at people who aren't. Different strokes, I guess.
Still, the pigs are still slaughtered, only you don't see it.
Halal killing …
.. … is considered an even crueler method of slaughter by some animal protection societies.
But you do you.
Let me guess, then
You’re a vegetarian.
Certainly your crack isn’t a geopolitical dig, as we know that halal and the other one are basically the same thing.
For us.
Not for them.
“us” as in Massachusetts residents….
…. who continue to support that industry by buying those products of human, animal and environmental abuse.
In that, I agree.
"environmental crimes"
Some NYC ditz went Green Acres in the Connecticut River Valley during the pandemic, and then discovered that her wide-ranging vista was due to neighboring vegetable farms.
She then tried to go on a local, then state campaign accusing them of "environmental crimes".
Never mind that one of the farms was organic, the other IPM. Somehow, the concept of manuring never occurred to her when she bought God's Little Acre.
This isn't a new problem - Harpers reprinted a county pamphlet from rural Washington on the subject in 1999 called "A discouraging word" where farming operations and their smell, 24/7 nature, noise, and dust were laid out to those buying "ranchettes".
Yeah, remember that time
the rich condo owners who'd bought across the street from South Street Diner started complaining it was open 24 hours as it had been since the 40s, didn't like the noise, pushed the Licensing Board to make it close at 1am, and got told to fuck off?
That was awesome.
off topic
I remember that as the Blue Diner. They pay homage to that in the current color scheme at the South Street Diner and the new sign actually looks better than the old generic Blue Diner one.
Everyone pushes limits.
And just about everyone gets their nose out of joint when somebody else pushes a limit that they want left untested.
Limits should be pushed. Otherwise we’d still be living in feudal times.
So in Southie ..
There's an uproar if a convience store wants to sell alcohol becuz children ...
But this is just fine? Hmmmm
Pls explain ...
A social club that is licensed and holds events is being a social club, holding events. Same as it ever was. Not sure how that has ANYTHING to do with selling alcohol at convenience stores.
Keep in mind, there's not a single verifiable example of anything untoward or actionable at all in the complaint.
This club is not Brigadoon.
Membership demographics, neighborhoods, the larger culture changes. Sounds to me that it is less and less of what neighborhood social clubs used to be decades ago and more and more of a rented out venue.
As for clear evidence to support the suit, that is why we have courts.
It’s hard not to notice that the comparison….
… of a rural pig farm to an urban Lithuanian social club might not be flattering to Lithuanians, at the very least.
Even in a city, people have a right to some quiet
Not taking sides here, but a couple of things:
I suspect Burns and his wife knew exactly what they were getting by buying a condo a block away from West Broadway. He's no fly-in - he's been putting up new buildings in South Boston and nearby areas for a number of years now.
Based on his complaint, I don't think he and his wife are arguing that they expect total silence, but that the level of noise and related problems have dramatically increased over the past couple of years (his complaint was filed with an affidavit from a West Broadway resident citing 2022 specifically). It's kind of similar to people in Readville complaining about the rail yards there - most of the people complaining have lived in Readville all or most of their lives, they knew what to expect, but say there was a dramatic increasing in overnight noise starting a few years ago.
This isn't to say the association doesn't have a case - unlike certain other clubs one could name, they've never been before the licensing board on noise or other issues that I can recall - and, as you can read in the attached answer by their lawyer, they have other arguments against the suit.
But we'll see what happens in court.
For the record: No, I don't know Burns, have never met or talked to him, but since I write a lot about development in Boston, I've become familiar with his name.