By adamg on Tue., 6/23/2020 - 9:33 am
Greg Cook reports on Kevin Peterson's fast to have the historic hall get renamed for somebody other than a slave owner.
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Boycott?
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 9:52am
Bostonians have been boycotting Fan'l Hall and Quincy Market for years.
You've already won guy.
The irony of doing a hunger strike for a place that most people associate as being a huge food court is pretty funny.
Faneuil Hall is not Quincy Market
By GoSoxGo
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 10:25am
But Crispus Attucks Hall has a nice ring to it.
So....
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 10:39am
Bleep you Patrick Carr, Samuel Gray, Samuel Maverick, and James Caldwell, you guys aren't as politically convenient for us to feel good right now, despite being killed too for the same cause (or being drunk guys egging on and throwing crap at the cops too, like Crispus)?
Here is a man who seems VERY
By tcf098
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 10:54am
Here is a man who seems VERY angry about the "blackening" of his America.
Faneuil Hall being named after a slave owner doesn't trigger him, but the mere thought of it being named after a black man killed in the Boston Massacre (when whites were also killed!) clearly sets him off.
Spotting the closet racists is becoming far too easy these days.
It is about fairness
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 11:13am
If you are going to rename Fanueil Hall after Crispus Attucks, then you leave the other 4 adrift.
Calm down. You are jumping to do many conclusions. See below.
Besides - "My America" started in the 1960's. Name it what you want. It has a nice museum on the top floor and the most annoying break dancing crew on the planet outside.
There is a Cromwell Road in Hyde Park and Cromwell CT named for a guy that beat the life and livelihoods out of my ancestors. Meh. Whatever.
Cool rebuttal, John.
By tcf098
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 12:06pm
I would've been willing to give you a shred of doubt about your true viewpoints and intentions, had you left out the part about
The fact is, there are conflicting eyewitness accounts regarding Crispus' involvement in the Massacre, so we'll never know for sure – but you chose to latch onto the thought that he was attacking British soldiers. Is that because he was black (or more specifically, mulatto)?
Since we're "leaving others adrift", it's probably important to point out nearly all of the antagonizers the night of March 5, 1770 were white.
I see who you are. Most of us here see who you are.
You say Conflicting Accounts, yes
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 12:22pm
So, we don't know for sure.
The victors write the history (save for Southerners - who have their own very incorrect views).
The court records from March 1770 read like soldiers shooting at protesters who were throwing stuff at them and egging them on. The Brits have a history of shooting at people who don't want them around, but indications are that there were out of control soldiers and out of control protesters. (Remember, there was one British soldier or sailor in Boston for every one adult male in 1770, things were out of hand)
I am still of the belief that things get sanitized and gussied up for the tourist crowd. I am of the opinion that those at Lexington and Concord were today's Trumpies rebelling against the guver'mint. That got cleaned up because their progeny sat down and started reading books and investing in mills that exploited the working class and got rich.
Shay's Rebellion, which also involved a group of country farmers was another Lexington and Concord, except they got their asses kicked by the State, therefore he has a hilly highway and perhaps a school or two named for him.
History is messed up. An attempt to change Faneuil Hall (are we going to change the name of the projects in Brighton too?) might be a noble thing, but it isn't going to change what he did.
John Adams as a Trumpie?
By Daan
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 7:23pm
Woooooohoooie! That's a fabulous albeit way tilted comparison.
Actually it is an impossible comparison and therefore a statement that makes no sense.
"Closet" is a stretch
By erik g
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 11:23am
Most of them will happily spout off their racist screeds without any prompting. It's up to us to make sure they face consequences for doing so.
Thanks Again Nerd
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 11:33am
You are a nerd, never forget that. I have to drop into name calling because you initiate it. That's all you have, name calling to offer. Come up with some original thoughts and wit and get back to us.
You are the valium of these boards.
I wasn't talking specifically about you
By erik g
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 11:52am
but thanks for jumping up so quickly when I lit the beacon!
Also, imagine thinking "nerd" is a derogatory term in this, the year of our lord 2020. Did you maybe mean "geek?" That would also show your age, but at least would make sense.
While we're at it, "valium of these boards" also doesn't make a lot of sense, because (1) no one has called the comments section on news stories "boards" since 1989 (2) valium calms anxiety, which I don't think is what you meant. Maybe you were going for Ambien, like I make people sleepy to read because I'm boring?
I stand corrected
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 12:02pm
But, yes, you are boring and with no original thoughts.
Nerd
By ElizaLeila
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 2:14pm
holy cow
By anon
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 4:23pm
but do you have issues, guy.
even Fish makes an attempt to couch his screeds in text that he believes equals some kind of "logic". you gunning for his spot or something?
No you don't John
By Daan
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 7:20pm
Using another person's ad hominem attack to justify yours is poor argumentation.
big up. did peter buy
By schneidz
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 2:25pm
big up. did peter buy crispus. name change sounds justified.
So does William Dawes.
By anon
Wed, 06/24/2020 - 7:48am
So does William Dawes.
These perpetually offended folks
By StillFromDorchester
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 10:24am
Are getting tiresome.
You offended, bro?
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 10:38am
You sound triggered by people raising legitimate issues about honoring people who built their forturnes on owning other human beings.
Slavery is how he “built his
By Lmo
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 12:42pm
Slavery is how he “built his fortune�
At least partly
By perruptor
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 12:56pm
From TFA:
Molasses was the standard cargo on the Eastward leg of slave ships' round-trip.
Depends on what you mean by "eastward"
By lbb
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:06pm
Molasses from the Caribbean, rum from New England, enslaved people from Africa.
Well, Molasses Got Its Revenge
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:10pm
Took about 170 odd years, but it stuck back at Boston in January 1919.
Right you are
By perruptor
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:41pm
Right you are, Ken!
triangle trade:
By schneidz
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 2:35pm
triangle trade:
thats why our beans are so sweet (sugarcane from haïti in exchange for humans to macheté them from west africa).
I’m aware, “built†is
By Lmo
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 2:23pm
I’m aware, “built†is inaccurate. He was able to own slaves because he was so wealthy, that isn’t how he became wealthy.
Pretty much anyone who was a
By Scratchie
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 4:26pm
Pretty much anyone who was a merchant in Boston in the 18th Century made their money because of slavery, even if they never owned a single slave.
I'm not a bro
By StillFromDorchester
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 12:45pm
And I'm not offended.
And yet you opened your pie hole
By lbb
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:06pm
to tell us how "tiresome" it all is.
It's called an opinion
By StillFromDorchester
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:20pm
One can have an opinion without being offended, so I'll open my pie hole whenever I wish.
Right. You're defending slave
By MakeBostonBusesFree
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 2:10pm
Right. You're defending slave profiteers. We're super clear on all your opinions, both white and wrong.
Are you assuming something?
By StillFromDorchester
Wed, 06/24/2020 - 12:45pm
Or did you misspell right?
it honestly doesn’t matter
By berkleealum
Wed, 06/24/2020 - 1:41pm
whether you’re black, white, asian, hispanic, whatever. you’re consistently a warrior for the status quo, and you’re consistently backwards in your opinion.
you began this thread by complaining about people who have an opinion that’s different from yours, and then pivoted to claim that you’re free to state your opinion, even though it’s different from others on this site.
ironically and in contrast to the people who want statues torn down, it’s not clear that you have any real beliefs - you’re just mad that public opinion is shifting away from your own.
Wow
By StillFromDorchester
Wed, 06/24/2020 - 8:21pm
So if my opinion aligned with yours it wouldn't be backwards?
Do you know how condescending that sounds?
I should probably go to a reeducation camp, huh?
Truth hurts, huh?
By Scratchie
Thu, 06/25/2020 - 9:47am
Truth hurts, huh?
What is the truth?
By StillFromDorchester
Thu, 06/25/2020 - 10:25am
It's hard to keep up with who is talking to who on here.
Jumping into a thread and saying "truth hurts, huh" is not helpful.
IM NOT OWNED
By berkleealum
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 2:52pm
IM NOT OWNED
This building behind me is a
By Refugee
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 10:51am
It's a little more complicated than that. The building was privately paid for, built, and gifted to the city by the slave owner.
More than that, he seems to have bitten off more than he can chew. Few people have an appetite for renaming Boston's 2nd most famous tourist attraction. A more achievable goal might be getting Faneuil Hall's website to acknowledge the background of Mr. Faneuil. Their website is overdue for updates anyways.
Why Stop There?
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 11:07am
Winthrop Square - Boston, Winthrop Street - Roxbury, the Town of Winthrop. Jonathan Winthrop owned three native American Slaves.
Franklin Street - Boston, The Town of Franklin - Franklin owned two slaves and his paper sold ad for slaves.
Derne Street - Named for the Battle of Denra - An American attempt to start dominating the Middle East through colonial activism.
Congress Street - Congress for years failed to abolish slavery.
Adams Square (The old name for the site in front of Fanueil Hall) Named for Samuel Adams who failed to convince his cousin President John Adams to abolish slavery.
Hanover Street and the Town of Hanover - Named for the British Royal House whose troops killed Crispus Attucks and the apparently 4 much less significant guys on State Street.
The Town of Royalston - Named for Isaac Royal - A man who kept slaves in Medford.
Boylston Street - Joshua Boylston of Brookline owned slaves.
Jackson Square in JP/Roxbury - Well, yup, he was a jackarse of the highest order. Change that.
Malcolm X Boulevard - Named for a petty thief who did time in the Charlestown Prison. Sorry, scratch that, we can't hold one man responsible for a period where he did something wrong and against the mores of society. That would not be right.
Columbus Avenue, Columbus Park, Columbia Road - We've been over that.
While we are at it; Boston. Boston is named for Boston England. Boston England is the England version of Trump Country. The area around Boston voted with the highest percentage for the UK to leave the EU. Brexit we all know is a xenophobic attempt to block out European influence in England.
You forgot one...
By CynicalGuy
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 11:24am
You forgot Washington. You know, George. A slave owner, quite a few slaves on his Virginia plantation, and he ordered his overseers to treat them more harshly (to get more work out of them) when his finances started going downhill. Shouldn't we rename Washington, DC? And tear down all his statues?
/s
Thanks, I've been looking for
By DrewD
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 11:38am
Thanks, I've been looking for a good example to illustrate "Reductio ad Absurdum".
Ascendo Tuum!
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 11:58am
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi buddy.
You forgot
By perruptor
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:04pm
You forgot about Costello Circle, almost certainly named after noted philanthropist Frank Costello.
Change It's Name!
By John Costello
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:07pm
To Declan Patrick McManus Place - Post Haste!
You can always tell a Latin grad...
By lbb
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:07pm
...but you can't tell him much.
Wingardium Leviosa
By Mac
Wed, 06/24/2020 - 7:59am
It's LeviOsa, not LevioSA
Where is the line?
By Bananarama
Wed, 06/24/2020 - 12:59pm
Please, I am genuinely trying to find answers beyond the hyperbolic crap from both sides.
Is it committing actual genocide of indigenous people? Is it having the majority of your life's work based around slave ownership and exploitation? Is it owning a certain number of slaves? Or just one? Or is it tweeting racial slurs 10 years ago?
Does someone need to be morally pure both in their time and in modern day?
I have heard plenty of people float the idea of renaming the state of Washington, for example as to how non-absurd that list is.
And I have no qualms with expanding the remembrance of past leaders beyond their virtues, but (and as much as I hate to say this) it does evoke some fear of slippery-slope, like cancel culture version 2.0
I'm waiting for someone to articulate a reasonable approach and all I'm hearing is the backlash from the right and left. Or along the lines of "a good time to have this discussion"... So where IS the discussion? Why is everything today so damn political and polarized??
Wow.
By erik g
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 12:01pm
This is really something. A masterwork of confused history, false equivalencies, intentionally disingenuous points, we-can't-fix-everything-so-let's-give-up-and-fix-nothing, and the odd bit of ironic racism. I'm glad you spent some time on this, though, because it's way easier to point this out to someone unfamiliar with the personalities around here, than it is to round up a bunch of other links.
I'll show them.
By anon
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 1:35pm
I'll kill myself.
Oh, what the hell
By erik g
Tue, 06/23/2020 - 12:29pm
It's lunchtime, I'll go through everything point by point, to provide some--what was it?--original thought and wit?
He sure did. He was also kind of a dick, from all historical record. Let's rename the square and the street; the town will probably never cave to pressure about it, but that doesn't mean we can't try.
And then he recanted his beliefs, joined an abolitionist society or three, and freed the two slaves he owned. Not everyone emerges into the world fully woke, but we welcome late converts as well.
This is pretty thin gruel, but sure. The Battle of Derna was the decisive fight in the first Barbary War, in which barbary corsairs captured merchant ships and enslaved their crews. To the extent that contemporary morality can be applied to things like early-19th-century colonial powers fighting against each other, I'm going to take the side fighting against piracy and slavery.
Please go to your room and think about what you have done.
Ah, I see we've abandoned the conceit that we're talking about renaming things named after historical figures who were actual shitheads, and now we're just going to play Calvinball with Boston's historical elite. I haven't convinced my cousin to stop using meth; does this disqualify me from anything?
Agreed. Let's return it to its original name, Orange Tree Lane, and hope no one mistakes it for homage to the current occupant of the White House,.
Yeah, he was also a shithead. I doubt we're going to get a town that's 99% white to agree to the name change, but tally-ho!
Agreed. No idea why the city is so obsessed with this guy.
Wrong Jackson. It's named after Henry Jackson, a Revolutionary War general who does not appear to have owned slaves.
And this is where we reach the end of our journey. Why don't you get yourself an "All Lives Matter" sign and hang it proudly in your front yard, so that your real-life neighbors can have the same insight into your beliefs as we few privileged UHubbers.
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