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Work to change Centre Street in West Roxbury from four to three lanes could begin in October, Wu, other officials tell residents
By adamg on Wed, 05/31/2023 - 11:56pm
Boston Streets Chief Jascha Franklin-Hodge discusses safety issues on Centre Street.
Mayor Wu and City Streets Chief Jascha Franklin-Hodge told a packed auditorium at the Ohrenberger School tonight they are committed to making Centre Street safer through a reconfiguration that will include reducing the number of travel lanes on each side from two to one, with a new third lane in the center for left-turn lanes at intersections and for various "flex" uses, such as letting first responders speed to emergencies.
The plan, for which Franklin-Hodge said work will begin in October, will also include pedestrian islands at intersections, reconfiguring traffic lights and moving parking spaces away from the curb to create "protected" bike lanes along the curbs.
Franklin-Hodge acknowledged the devil is in the details and said the city will hold at least three separate meetings for residents and small-business owners to offer advice on issues such as bus stops and preserving parking spaces.
Both he and Wu said traffic data, from both 2019, when the idea was first proposed after the death of Marilyn Wentworth, show the road is simply unsafe. It has higher numbers of crashes than "peer roads" in Boston and across the state, as well as speeders and other drivers who create safety problems.
Creating single through lanes on each side would slow drivers down and end lane weaving and "double threat" crashes, in which one driver stops for a pedestrian, who then gets slammed into by a driver in the neighboring lane who doesn't stop, he said.
Franklin-Hodge added that the city can do all this while losing only 8 of the roughly 224 parking spaces along Centre, and that it's possible that could be reduced to just 5 spaces. Also, he said, the city will track what the changes do to the side streets off Centre and, if need be, would look to installing speed bumps and other measures to slow down any speeders.
Tensions ran high as both opponents and supporters - many of whom wore green tops - came to the microphone to offer their opinions, in an auditorium that seemed to be relatively evenly split. But through it all, only one person was outright booed - Catherine Vitale of Dorchester, who used to stand outside Wu's house screaming through a bullhorn at 7:30 a.m. but who is now running for an at-large City Council seat. Vitale's arguments that "it's not the government's job to keep us safe!" and that the Centre Street plan is "bullshit!" followed by a rant about crime in places like Dorchester proved too extreme for a number of people in the auditorium.
Wu, who lives in neighboring Roslindale, said she is in West Roxbury several times a week - as a mother to two young sons, who play lacrosse and soccer there. "I'm gripping tightly onto the hands of my kids" whenever they have to cross Centre, because it's just so unsafe, she said.
She was echoed by West Roxbury parents and residents who said they constantly worry about their kids crossing the street or who sometimes go shopping elsewhere for fear of getting hit. One man said he shouldn't have to worry about his sons, 9 and 13, when they go to a store for some gum.
One resident said her brother died getting hit by a car at a young age, that that forever changed her life and that she does not want anybody else to go through that. Another, a pediatric nurse, told Wu and Franklin-Hodge to "sign her up" for any needed work to change Centre Street into something safer. Saving just one life would make it all worth it, she said.
Supporting the plan was City Councilor Kendra Lara (West Roxbury, Jamaica Plain). "The really important step is making sure Centre Street is safe for everybody," she said.
Sarah Breuer, who is mobility impaired, said she would love to have a Centre Street where she could cross safely. She said when she is in her wheelchair, she is no taller than a kindergartner, which means drivers speeding down Centre might not even see her, so she dreads trying to go from one side to another.
Opponents cited many of the same arguments that they used to kill a similar proposal in 2019, that eliminating travel lanes is too extreme, that maybe the road would be safer if bicyclists stopped running red lights, if pedestrians got their heads away from their phones, if BPD actually enforced existing laws.
Jose Diaz said people should reject the idea that government knows best. One Centre Street business owner said the proposal would harm the neighborhood's senior citizens, because they don't ride bikes or walk, and need to drive places, such as her store. Abner Bonilla, who lives on American Legion Highway in Roslindale, urged West Roxbury residents to fight the proposal. He said American Legion, which is now down to one lane in front of his house, is still unsafe because people still speed.
Steve Morris, who led the fight against the plan in 2019, and who printed up lawn signs in 2021 to keep the plan dead, said, again, that it seemed the fix was in and, after noting all the green shirts in the auditorium, said it was obvious bicyclists were up to their old tricks. He was joined by another resident who said more explicitly it was all a plot by bicyclists: That the changes would fail, then the city would turn all of Centre Street into a pedestrian path with free-for-all parking.
Brian Kenneally added a new argument: That Marilyn Wentworth, who walked with a cane, "was not in the crosswalk when she was unfortunately killed, so please stop saying that." Other opponents then raised that issue as well.
Kenneally: She wasn't in the crosswalk.
One supporter of the plan allowed how, OK, people should walk in crosswalks, "but if you don't, you don't deserve to die."
Wentworth's son, Matt, was the last person of the night to speak. He did not address the allegation about his mother, but said he was there to support the plan, that after all the grief he and his father, Al, went through, he just wants to keep it from ever happening to anybody else.
As Al Wentworth (in white tee shirt) and others listen, Matt Wentworth urges support for proposal:
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Comments
Steve
I'll take "Boston's Dumbest Controversy" for 100, please.
CENTRE STREET
"It's not governments job to keep us safe." Would like to know the educational background of that speaker. But given the present quality on the City Councill, she'd probably be an improvement.
No reflection
I attended the meeting because I live on a side street off center and we have ten kids on our small street. Speeding on residential streets and running stops signs is unsafe right now so I can’t imagine what it will be like with the road diet. Most people there did not support this change; however, the mayor decided to break into small groups in the beginning of the meeting and have only 50 people sign up to speak. She did this to deter residents to feel like they had no voice and couldn’t speak their concerns. Therefore, a majority of the residents left in frustration and the supporters of this plan, who were clearly organized, signed up to speak taking the opportunity away from others who would have liked to voice their concerns. I went to the back in the small groups to hear what these experts had to say and it was concerning how little they knew the area and didn’t have even have the correct maps showing the side streets. Then they asked residents to write their concerns on sticky notes which ended up to be a disorganized mess. It’s disheartening to see how the meeting was run and how it will happen with no thought, reflection or concern how this will change the traffic flow to side streets and what safety measures need to be in place BEFORE this change happens. They have no plan to mitigate traffic concerns or speeding on side streets and just told us to call 311 in hopes of something happening after the fact. I agree there should be a bike lane in west Roxbury and safety measures on center st, but they have no plan and call in “experts” who have never lived in the area and I’m pretty sure never lived in Boston until recently. What I learned from this meeting is that the mayor, these experts and the city councilor does not care about the concerns of their citizens and have no reflection or plan on how this change will effect all residents who live on center. They only wanted to hear one voice in that meeting.
I'm sorry you were so confused by the meeting
Although the published agenda did include break-out sessions, the Mayor polled the audience regarding preference, and at least 2/3 preferred sticking to that format. And it's a good thing we did, because that's the only way to get more granular information and crucially, the best way to give feedback. I get the idea that you went in with a very closed mind, and that nothing short of an announcement that Centre Street wouldn't be touched would have satisfied your desired outcome. Sorry, doesn't work that way. You aren't the only person who lives there. This isn't just some wonky idea from outsiders who've never been to Boston. A large number of people who live near Centre Street, who have the very local knowledge you demand, have also concluded that a lane reduction is the only way to meaningfully address safety concerns.
As for mitigation of downstream consequences, Franklin-Hodge was pretty clear about that, saying that mitigation steps would be taken as the picture becomes more clear. He even offered several descriptions of what such steps might be.
Finally, I thought your idea about a bi-directional cycle track combined with angled parking on the opposite curb was interesting enough to spend some time thinking about whether that can work. Centre St. is 60 feet wide mostly (some variability due to curvature). Right now, I believe the configuration is this:
Parking: 8 feet
Travel Lanes: 44 ft (4x11)
Parking: 8 feet
A bi-directional cycle track needs a minimum of 12 feet (5 for each direction, 2 foot buffer). Angled stall parking, curb to street is 15 feet, but you need another 10 for cars backing out (look at Beacon St. in Brookline for an example of this). That leaves 23 feet for car travel lanes, which is to say 2 lanes. But here's the kicker. The idea, which yields no additional travel space, would result in less parking. Parallel parking on both sides provides more spots than angled parking on one side. You know who knows these things, and can model it out to determine whether it's viable? The traffic engineers that you and some other people prefer to at best ignore, or in some cases outright sneer and jeer. It's an example of why their expertise is helpful -- non-viable options aren't even presented because they'd waste our time.
[edit to remove a section meant as response to another post]
Not true
You wrote: “Most people there did not support this change.” That’s simply not true. Applause for speakers from both sides was roughly equal. There was no preference given to speakers for one side or the other, people simply lined up to sign in for a spot. But the number of speakers ended up heavily favoring the 3 lane plan, which simply shows the strong support from attendees. I know, the “Save Centre St.” crowd likes to think they represent some huge majority. But the truth is, the city's proposal has a lot more support than you want to admit.
Not my neighborhood
So the changes won't affect me one way or another. But the city/state showed their hand with the pandemic and Orange Line street changes. No meetings, no studies, no waiting. Within a week they had roads reconfigured and optimized for mass transit and walking/bikes. It was almost shocking how quick the city and state planned and implemented roadway changes.
Nothing bad happened as a result. Most people seemed to think the changes where an improvement or at least not nearly as bad as predicted.
So I'm skeptical of these hearings and naysayers and officials who claim changes take time.
Excuse me
Boylston Street would like a word with you.
To be fair, on the one side
To be fair, on the one side there's city traffic engineers went to university studying how road design effects behavior and looking at decades of research to form evidence based opinions on best practices, and on the other, the average neighbor of Centre Street, at least, believes that "bicyclists" are staging a false flag coup to import communism.
Sometimes two perspectives really shouldn't be weighed equally.
You're absolutely right. In
You're absolutely right. In one corner you have the Harvard grads who probably never drove on a city street until 2020 when no one else was on them. In the other you have the residents who have lived in the neighborhood and have relied on getting up and down that street for years on the other.
I think I know who I'd rather listen to.
The people who spoke in favor
Mostly seemed to be people who actually drive, walk or, yes, bike down Centre Street.
There are people in West Roxbury who seem to think the entire world is out to destroy them when (and I speak as a former Brighton resident who has long lived in Roslindale) most of the world actually couldn't care less about them. Nobody goes out of their way to drive down Centre Street so they can park and then rub their hands in glee thinking about ways to bring down the neighborhood. Nobody goes out of their way to drive down Centre Street, period.
So the only people who are going to show up at something like this are not pointy-headed academic chromedomes but people who actually have a reason to be on that road (yes, the original road-diet idea was by a professor at Northeastern, who I guess could wear bow ties in his off hours, I don't know, but he only started his study when one of his students, who grew up in West Roxbury, suggested looking at it).
"he only started his study when one of his students, who.."
So the original Centre Street road diet design was the result of a college student at Northeastern from West Roxbury who suggested to his professor they study the street design from a public safety perspective and not the reasons and conspiracy theories opponents have suggested? Interesting.
I've been driving and walking Centre St for 30 years. I understand why many drivers want to get from one end to the other, St Theresa to Holy Name as fast as possible. I get why people like to double park because they'll just be a minute but none of these conveniences should come at the cost of injury to others or cost other people their lives.
It makes me sad and a little angry when opponents of a better street design argue that people who lost their lives on Centre St. may be responsible. No one has a right to commit vehicular homicide under the law, in or out of a crosswalk.
In MA, bicyclists can take the lane, that is the law. Also in MA, bicycles cannot take the sidewalk in a business district. So on Centre Street in West Roxbury as it is now bicyclists can (1) take the lane or (2) share it with cars.
I'd have thought drivers would prefer that bicycles (1) not take they lane and that (2) drivers not have to share the lane with a bicyclist but rather give (3) bicyclists their own lane. But of course that would require the 6 lanes allocated to automobiles -- two for parking and four for driving -- would lose 1.
For the record, the original redesign retained 205 of 221 on-street parking spots. The new plan retains 216. Neither of the two plans lost a substantial number of on-street parking spots, and there is substantial parking in private and public lots on Centre. I.E. Walmart, CVS, Bank of America, Macy's, Roche Bros..
I can't recall if the Mayor ran on the question of Centre Street but I do recall her opponent, who lost, ran against it. And Five-Cars to my surprise came out for it. I don't pretend to understand what is driving the opposition because I don't think the objections about parking carry much weight.
Ken Martin still says a majority of West Roxbury opposes the plan, and that support and opposition expressed at the meeting was not an even split.
My view is that opposition is reactionary and in defiance of the authority of a Mayor they disagree with on more than one issue.
I'll try to keep an open mind about reasons for not adopting the design. Please feel free to share them here.
Raises hand
Having stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I feel I understand the opposition.
"Dey took our roads!"
There you go.
I didn't go to Harvard, I
I didn't go to Harvard, I live in West Roxbury just off Centre Street, and I think we're long overdue for the road diet to go in. Care to listen to me?
I’d probably disagree with
I’d probably disagree with you but I’d certainly listen to your points. I think your opinion matters more than someone who appears out of nowhere with the mindset that they know better than you or I.
Some people do know better than you or I
why is that such a bad thing?
Because
… they just drop their ideas on the people who live here then just move on. They don’t have to deal with anything when their ideas fail while the people who live here do.
They may have knowledge, but an issue like this requires a large amount of local knowledge. No degree from higher education gives you that.
Yeah, about those Orange Line
Yeah, about those Orange Line street changes...they just slapped some "Bus Lane" paint on various roads, then walked away.
Maybe it helped during the Orange Line shuttle. But that was in October 2018. Meanwhile the paint is still there today, and many of these streets don't have ANY bus service. Besides the inefficiency this creates, you have to use some of those lanes to be in the right place to make turns.
Fortunately this nonsense is being ignored by cops just as much as by the driving public. But it should not be held up as an example of smart road design.
Wu is full of it
Shes not walking on Centre multiple times a week. Last I checked Westie/Millennium and Hynes aren’t near Centre, so taking your kids to practice/games wouldn't bring you to it.
Also, that must be awkward. Most of the neighborhood HATES her.
This is a done deal, she went to this meeting to save face so she can point to it later as “community engagement” when its ultimately jammed down the neighborhoods throat.
is it possible
to just disagree with something Wu does without attributing her actions to some grand plot to continually save face from whatever perceived embarrassment you’ve imagined?
That's reserved …
… for white men.
Also...
...some might point out that the use of the term, "face-saving" is a racist dig at the Mayor's heritage. Of course I'm sure it was just a coincidence.
I live within ~.5 of Wu
and I find myself on Centre all the time. Agreed that it is chaotic and unsafe, happy they are doing something about it. Not everything is a false flag conspiracy.
Half a Wu?
Half a Wu?
Can you convert that to rods or smoots for the rest of us please?
That's impressive
And kind of scary that you claim to be following the mayor around at all times, because how else would you state with such assurance that you know she never goes to Sugar or Maria's or Comella's or wherever before or after a soccer game at Millennium Park?
Mayor Selfie
Makes her presence know. And I live in the area and have never seen her on Centre.
Just an observation ya nitwit.
So you're standing on Centre Street all the time?
And you know for a fact that the mayor constantly makes her presence known when taking her kids to and from soccer?
Far be it from me to suggest how to spend your time, but have you considered another hobby?
So you were you behind the purple dot ...
Of the MBTA bus flasher the other day. I see.
She could also be going to
She could also be going to Billings Field or the field next to Catholic Memorial, both of which could take her down Centre St. And the whole neighborhood doesn't her; just the lace-curtain fascists.
ADAM
This is hate speech.
The reference to "Lace Curtain" is done in the manner of an ethnic slur. She is calling the Irish-American community of West Roxbury, long called "Lace Curtain Irish" collectively fascists.
Take it down please.
Otherwise, yes Centre Street needs a little calming.
I am just waiting for the Camberville / JP crowd to be as concerned about Warren Street and Blue Hill Ave.
JOHN
Why the F are you bringing "Camberville" in to this? Enough with your dastardly anti-Cambridge slurs. Anyway, we've got plenty of our own car zealots to deal with here in town and have no time to attend a West Roxbury meeting.
Hate Speech is Hate Speech
Adam allowed a subtle ethnic slur to be put up. He posted it.
Camberville is a collective noun and is used by people from both Cambridge and Somerville.
lol
Boston Irish complaining about "lace curtain" (which was mostly leveled by lower class irish catholics against their well to do neighbors) is almost as ridiculous as the Cuomo brother losing it over being called "Fredo"
calm down.
Lace-curtain fascists
I think your concern is not calling Irish-Americans lace-curtain but calling them fascists. Lace-curtain fascists may be referring to pro-Trump Irish-Americans not anti-Trump Irish Americans. The writer's use is not a categorical statement about the whole class of (under-represented and marginalized) Irish-Americans. But it is a harsh criticism of some of their politics. The question is whether voters who support Trump support fascism.
Here's some food for thought: Banning ideas and authors is not a ‘culture war’ – it’s fascism
this has been explained over and over
the poster is mad because he himself was called out for poor use of language. i don’t even remember what it was at this point, but he’s been champing at the bit ever since.
Piss Off Oboe Boy
Seriously.
I'm surprised you can get through doorways with that chip on your shoulder against me.
i don’t care about you at all lol
you are just a fascinating character. you write with the cleanest prose of anyone here yet you manage to say the dumbest shit of anyone here. gotta love it
Oh, We Get It
It's ridiculous how much you hate people who live in Cambridge and pathologically bring us up at every turn, even if we have nothing to do with the issue at hand. It reflects poorly on any legitimate point you might have.
I'm sorry that you paid too much for coffee at 1369 that one time, I really am, but we're of no consequence in this current issue.
Fighting prejudice
When it comes to fighting prejudice, some like to fight fire with fire.
Warren Street
In Cambridge/Somerville is a nuisance, but it's only about 500 feet long, and the average speed is about 5 MPH.
Roxbury
Warren Street - Roxbury. Four lanes plus parking and a median between Quincy Street and Nubian Square.
OK
To be fair, it was an easy conclusion to jump to, given your reference to Camberville. The Warren Street I know has one end in Cambridge and the other in Somerville, even though it's only about 500 feet long. It's not much more than an alley, but is treated as a thoroughfare at rush hours.
John, not sure what you're trying to say here
https://www.universalhub.com/crime/20230601/gunfire-malcolm-x-boulevard-...
Are you inventing people to be mad at again?
Also as a fellow Irish-Catholic, I think you're stretching things here. Always the victim, etc.
Not A Victim
Just pointing out hypocrisy on two levels.
Malcolm X Boulevard is too wide. You go from Tremont Street in Mission Hill to Dudley Street. Both are neighborhood commercial corridors except there is the Epping Dragway in the middle.
I know you need one side for school buses but it has the same characteristics as Centre Street in JP, yet somehow it escapes vitriol owing that political West Roxbury is opposed to political JP.
Watching this debate is like drunk uncle versus know it all anthropology major at Thanksgiving. Both have some merits, both should understand the other and come to some sort of agreement.
I just think it is interesting that Adam let's a ethnic slur pass through a comment, which he posted.
So you chose whataboutism
I'm remembering you aren't too fond of that when others do it lol
And as for the slur, I'm well aware of the historical reference, I just think you need to clutch your pearls a little less. Won't someone please think of those poor fascists feelings!
JOHN BOY
Your heirloom lace curtains handmade by Irish nuns are getting dingy and dusty.
Take them down, please and give them a wash.
Impressive support
Before this meeting, I thought there were a lot more of you on “the whole neighborhood hates this” side. But the very large crowd had much support for both the plan and Mayor Wu. With dozens of speakers, pro-change views vastly outnumbered the 4-lane supporters by as much as 3 to 1. Nearly everyone there identified themselves as nearby residents. Applause for both sides was strong, but it appeared to me that if there was a referendum of attendees, the city's plan would win.
Congratulations to the mayor, the organizers, and all the attendees for keeping the meeting civil. There was a lot of strong emotion that could have led to shouting matches or worse, but it was a good, peaceful debate.
Most of the neighborhood
It's true she lost West Roxbury during the election - but not by much. Check out this map of the voter breakdown. Most precincts in West Roxbury went 45% Wu, 55% Essaibi George. It's untrue that most of the neighborhood hates her.
Poplar St Expressway
The speed limit on Poplar Street in Roslindale needs to be addressed. Drivers ignore the speed limit signage. Drivers have hit parked cars and make it difficult for homeowners to exit their driveways. It’s like playing chicken trying to turn onto the street. It’s dangerous! At my request in 2005 Boston transportation department claimed drivers do the speed limit. Of course they watch their speed if they know their being watched by a marked policed car!
Poplar
Agree fully that Poplar needs speed humps. Here’s something interesting, tho. The Transportation Dept wants to put in a relatively short bike lane. Nearby residents who ride their bikes every day assert this makes no sense. The cyclists say that they would never have enter Washington from Poplar. The bicyclists spoke up at the BTD walkthrough. They spoke up at the Neighborhood Association meeting. It will be fascinating to see whether the Transportation Dept will insist on building the bike lane anyway. Definitely keeping my eye on this one.
Also, just because you don’t
Also, just because you don’t vote for someone doesn’t necessarily mean you HATE them.
Shes not walking on Centre
Have you tried crying about it?
RL, Billings and the WR Little league fields...
are all within 50 yards of Centre St. RL appears to have lots of non school related activities on the lower field (right on Centre).
Talk about painting everyone
Talk about painting everyone w/ the same brush. Hold your roll...
I'm in favor of it as I am tired of playing chicken (daily) on Centre St...the only reason you pretend to think everyone is against it is b/c the people that refuse to educate themselves about a road diet and main street districts have the loudest mouths.
The "SAVE CENTRE STREET" signs are a tad much...especially in places that are far out of the Main Street area. I stopped giving my business to those that display them.
Are they trying to save themselves from living in a vibrant area that has more than banks, nail salons and pizza parlors?
MacGregor?
Was new State Rep Bill MacGregor there? He was the candidate of road diet opponents. I thought he was going to stand up against this mess.
He was
Wu gave him a shoutout at the beginning. But he didn't say anything, at least not with a mic.
So typical politician that
So typical politician that says one thing to get elected then backs off once in office? He’s on the ballot next year. My vote was solely based on the road diet since his main opponent supported it. We need West Roxbury politicians to stand up to the mayor on this. I hope he does at the next meeting.
What position?
In the dozens of mailers from Bill’s campaign, I never saw any statement about the 3-lane proposal for Centre St. I don’t think he took a position on it, and if he did it certainly wasn’t a keynote of his campaign.
MacGregor said at the Corrib
MacGregor said at the Corrib forum he wanted more community input and didn’t support the road diet as is. Orthman was the one saying he supported the City plan because his friend got hit crossing. That was in the Bulletin. I know some of the road diet opponents and they all backed MacGregor to stop this. This thing is now being shoved down our throats without any input and we have no one standing up for us.
MacGregor has no official standing
He lives in West Roxbury, so his opinion certainly matters, but as a representative to the General Court, he has no official influence over the City of Boston's plans for Centre Street.
Well...
Well...
As that city street ties-in to state (DCR) highways, has a bridge or two that are maintained with state money, has a bridge bordering the area in question that will be renovated or something in a couple of years, has a state transportation agency running buses through it, has a state transportation agency running trains under it, with the state having some purview to investigate/help & even regulate some local issues, with a state government executive branch at least somewhat aware of & sympathetic to Boston issues, where state favor might help shake some money loose in the city's direction, having state agencies who probably like their budgets wanting to keep state reps happy-ish when they call (if it's not too much trouble)...
Having a state rep who is aware, informed, and somewhat on the same page would be a good thing, right?
It's a … city road
So the state rep doesn't really have jurisdiction. And a new state rep doesn't want to step on the city's toes.
Very correct. And yet this
Very correct. And yet this question was asked of the rep candidates at every forum put on. Orthman was the one who gave his actual opinion and said the lane reduction was the only true way to eliminate the threat to people crossing a 4-lane road unless people want a stop light at every intersection. MacGregor said a lot of words about needing more community input and wanting a safer street but wouldn't say what the plan should look like. Same with Segal.
You are a single issue voter
You are a single issue voter who will vote for anyone who is for killing pedestrians? You are sick in the head.
So when exactly did MacGregor
So when exactly did MacGregor say that he was anti-road diet? I’ve heard that he said he wants there to be a vigorous community process and for the community to have input but how and when did he run as the anti-road diet candidate? Also since this was such an incredibly important issue to you one would assume that you would have gone to the biggest meeting about it and voiced your opinion? Thirdly I was under the understanding that this is a city issue not a state one. While we are at it, what are the positions of Rob Consalvo and Mike Rush on the road diet? What are they saying?
Good question on Rush. Don’t
Good question on Rush. Don’t know what his stance on this is at all or if he was there. Consalvo doesn’t represent West Roxbury so don’t care what he thinks here but Rob is a good guy in general.
You want to tell Consolvo
You want to tell Consolvo that? His district absolutely includes part of WR and includes the areas surrounding it. He regularly posts and tweets about events he attends in WR like the senior prom and is even holding his next fundraiser in WR. I’d be interested in hearing his position.
back-row bill
He made us all think he "had" West Roxbury's backs on this, then he says nothing in the back. Back Row Bill - 'They" are all the same! I hope he follows through too but this is not a good start. We're all going to be forced to bike by Mayor Wu soon.
Hiding the Design?
It sounds like the City did not show their actual design and solicit feedback on it. Why not present an actual plan to which people and businesses can respond concretely?
Hardly hiding
There were physical printouts the size of an entire table of the proposed street layout, and they were encouraging people to provide feedback via written notes.
Hiding the Design?
Based on this quote from the article and the lack of an image of the design, it sounded like the design may have been unclear.
"Franklin-Hodge acknowledged the devil is in the details and said the city will hold at least three separate meetings for residents and small-business owners to offer advice on issues such as bus stops and preserving parking spaces."
Could someone post the design with the details?
It's available
on the City's website.
https://www.boston.gov/departments/transportation/centre-street-design-p...
Scroll down, download the presentation.
You know how I found it? I typed West Roxbury Road Diet into the search bar. And scrolled down to Centre St Design Project. Why are you being a baby about finding public documents?
Wrong
There were information tables showcasing the design elements, maps, etc. They wanted feedback on the draft, and it's completely inaccurate to say they didn't show it.
Not accurate
I was there. I live right here in West Roxbury and am the person who spoke in support of the project at the beginning of the comment period because I’ve almost been hit crossing the street and don’t want to die for trying to get a cup of coffee and some brambles. They showed the plan in detail at the stations at the back of the room, and had an option to put sticky note comments on the map to give feedback as well as multiple staff members to discuss the design one-on-one.
Jascha Franklin-Hodge went into a lot of detail about why the lane reduction is key for making the road safer and why the other suggested interventions that various people have brought up aren’t effective. The people who are qualified to know what will work and what won’t work are the traffic engineers who do road designs for a living, so I trust them. And for what it’s worth, I’m not a traffic engineer, but I do have to participate in some safety/performance improvement stuff as a component of my job, and in the areas where the same concepts are relevant, the only plan that would pass the test for making real safety improvements is the one the city presented. My fullest appreciation goes to the Chief of Streets, BTD, Mayor’s Office, and everyone else at the city who has worked so hard on this project.
Road Safety
I walk Centre St. multiple times each week and cross only at a traffic signal. I wouldn’t use a crosswalk if my life depended on it (which it does).Yesterday on my way to the meeting, I saw a car make a U-turn in the middle of rush hour right in front of the hardware store — cutting through a crosswalk. I support the road reconfiguration and anything else needed to bring safe access to people who walk, drive, and shop there.
I spend little time in West Roxbury,
… but I walk several miles a day in Boston. In general I find so called jay walking safer than crossing at crosswalks with traffic lights where drivers are speeding up to run yellow and red lights. Or when they hit the accelerator because the driver behind them leaned on the horn to get them to look up from their phone and notice the light had turned green. Drivers in these situations see pedestrians as an afterthought.
if BPD actually enforced
I mean, they actually are correct in this. There is ZERO enforcement of anything on Centre street, including the parts of the road LITERALLY RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE POLICE STATION. BPD doesn't give a single shit about speeding, running lights, double parking (which also significantly contributes to the lane weaving), or pedestrians.
I'm in full favor of the redesign but it's pathetic that the city has so washed its hands of the very CONCEPT that police may in fact be here to enforce laws as opposed to collect overtime illegally that we have to default to rebuilding roads to accomplish the same end. And Bonilla is right - people can in fact speed on a single lane the same way they speed on a double lane. This plan will help with the weaving, the double parking, and the two-car pedestrian roulette, but it's not going to help with the hellish race from light to light.
research before you comment
police journals are available to the public. Cars hit people or property all day. The police barely have time to drive from crash to crash.
Drivers hit things all day in
Drivers hit things all day in part because cops do not ticket dangerous drivers. If they barely have any time then why are they always playing on their phones at a tiny construction site?
I nominate this
For UHub comment of the week
on duty =/= paid detail
Apparently you don't know the difference.
It's hard to tell
because at no point in either role are they ever issuing a crosswalk or red-light ticket
Where? Are? You?
This morning in my way to work I saw two cars run red lights on Centre. Like I do most mornings. Like Monday when a Boston COP ran the light at Centre and LaGrange. The street is not designed well for safety and these changes are needed but the E5 have to step up. When this redesign happens MORE cars will run the lights out of frustration. Where? Are? You?
fix the t, fix the roads (to be safer)
fix the T so people can reliably use it (without it causing PTSD.)
fix the roads so traffic density drops and its safer for everyone.
yes, it will cost money. yes, it will suck during the implementation process. but these measures are the solution to a giant swath of the issues facing Massachusetts. toll the shit out of the the southern entrances to boston. also toll the shit out of the entrances to MA from NH. that will help pay for it. metro west and the north shore are sick of being the only toll payers to get into the city.
before the naysayers pile on:
1) Boston (and the MBTA service area) subsidizes the rest of the state, so don't whine about the cost.
2) yes, some bike riders do blow through red lights and weave through traffic. that said, they still represent a tiny fraction of people using our roadways. lets fix the issues which put so many extra cars on the road before we start tackling the smaller issues.
Hmm...
That's possibly true, but...show your work, please? "Subsidizes" in what regard? Have you seen the roads and bridges outside the "MBTA service area"?
have you seen the roads and
have you seen the roads and bridges in Boston, Newton, Brookline, Wellesley, Weston, etc.? They're all in a state of shitty disrepair.
the metro boston tax basis carries the state, that shouldn't even be up for debate. my greater point is that whenever big ideas regarding fixing transporation issues in metro boston (aka the T) are floated, the west of 495 crowd starts screaming about how unfair the state is, all the while their municipalities are a net negative for the state.
geez louise
Yes, let's definitely hear more on these subjects from the local driving community
Just thank you
Thanks for the detailed and fairly balanced reporting. Much appreciated.
Is there a video of the
Is there a video of the presentation (or maybe the slide deck) online anywhere? I wasn't able to make it to last night's meeting, but planning on going to one of the drop in sessions.
They will be posted
Jascha Franklin-Hodge said that the slide deck and other materials would be available soon, presumably at the project page, https://www.boston.gov/centre-street-design-project although currently it only has the 2019 presentation.
Presentation PDF
I took a collage of mobile phone photos of the street plans but I just checked and the presentation has been posted near the bottom of the page you linked and it has the same images for anyone who is interested.
Direct link: https://www.boston.gov/sites/default/files/file/2023/06/Centre-St-presentation-May-2023.pdf
I'm very happy about this and how the meeting went. Now Mayor Wu just has to follow through. Thanks, as always, to Adam for the thorough coverage.
It’s interesting that Brian
It’s interesting that Brian Kenneally, a local realtor, is opposed to this. You would think that a safer and walkable community would benefit him in regard to selling homes.
Real-estate agents, at least some of them ...
Really, really hate the proposal. Last time around, it was a real-estate broker who paid to send thousands of little fliers to West Roxbury and Roslindale about how it was all a plot by Big Bicycle.
Cyclist and pro cyclist
Like yourself, are in fact pushing this.
Question, was your buddy, you know the one who yells at the Shriners during the Roslindale parade there. Alen!
Alan Wright?
Yes, he was there. So? He made a brief, calm statement that cities elsewhere that have done similar things with their neighborhood-business-district roads have seen generally good results - including an increase in business in their stores.
Also present: Vitale's West Roxbury toady, you know, the guy who looks for cops at public events, then deliberately bumps into people nearby and yells for police protection while he keeps his camera videoing (for the record, no, he didn't do that this time).
As for me, sorry, pal, last time I rode a bike was maybe like 20 years ago in Vermont. I just like walking more.
Added a bit to the story
Vitale didn't just rant about bullshit on Centre Street, she also started ranting about violent crime in Dorchester.
Or people who want to walk
Or people who want to walk somewhere without getting hit by a car. Or - gasp - drivers who realize how psychotic the road is!
We live in the neighborhood and drive a lot and, you know what, it sucks! It sucks to drive on! People are INSANE. Nobody stays in one lane, it's weaving in and out in and out like it's Frogger, between people double parking, taking left turns, stopped against right of way to let other drivers out of driveways, the random unannounced road work by National Grid or Eversource, the u-turns, the speeding, the half-assed parking jobs that jut out into the lanes because people are lazy and the parking is badly designed.
This isn't an issue of Drivers vs Cyclists, or even Drivers vs Everybody Else. Centre St feels dangerous and unpleasant TO DRIVERS. And a huge unspoken piece of this is that a lot of the crazy drivers AREN'T in the neighborhood - they're cutting through to Dedham or Brookline or whatever. Washington has the same issue with cut-throughs driving at psychotic speeds but because it's a straighter road with better left-turns and way less reason to stop and park, it's vaguely less insane. Also that's the "poor" side of the neighborhood so when people get hit by high speed cars nobody cares (which is effed up).
How do you know where the
How do you know where the crazy drivers live? Have you stood there for several hours, categorizing each car as crazy or sane, and then asked a cop friend to run the plates to get everyone's address?
And why should it matter which side of the city line someone lives on anyway?
Stop poisoning your brain on
Stop poisoning your brain on facebook. There is no nefarious bike lobby out there. We're all just fed up with having to play frogger every time we need to go to CVS.
the bicycle lobby exists
I don't know who the thousands of cyclists are who keep signing petitions to support every bicycle project in Cambridge, consequences to drivers, transit riders, and Garden Street neighbors be damned. They certainly aren't out on North Mass Ave when I'm biking there.
Gee I wonder why you don't see them there
Maybe because N Mass Ave is a half-assed attempt at safer bicycling because PARKING (or something) and still isn't that safe.
Come on down to Broadway and Cardinal Maderos some morning and see if you can find the cyclists.
I'm very familiar with the
I'm very familiar with the rush hour bike parade to Kendall Square. I think Hampshire gets a bit more bike traffic than Broadway.
I'd say this shows that cycle tracks don't cause cycling, since North Mass Ave has them and Broadway and Hampshire don't (yet). Broadway and Hampshire have traditional bike lanes to the left of curbside parking. So parking doesn't prevent biking either.
I think North Mass Ave doesn't get a lot of bikes because the demand just isn't there. You don't have a large mass of bike people living a biking distance from their destination.
untrue
You just don't "see" the bicycles so you can justify hitting them.
I've got the t-shirt
I proudly wore my All-Powerful Bicycle Lobby colors to the meeting to strike fear into the hearts of realtors. BIROTA OMNIPOTENS!
Ah, I was wondering what kind
Ah, I was wondering what kind of ghoul would be so tactless as to spread a conspiracy theory in a public hearing about a disabled pedestrian who was run down on Centre Street; a realtor.
Realtors can be pretty
Realtors can be pretty reactionary as a group. It's primarily a social, network-driven profession, so anything that makes a realtor's network mad will tend to make them mad, too, even if that thing would be good for their business. Understanding market conditions and systemic thinking, while they may help an individual get ahead, aren't required.
I have responded to this
I have responded to this article. I know it is a long response but please read it.
please post a link to the
please post a link to the homicide investigator that determined the victim was not in the crosswalk.
Have you interacted with realtors?
They are all car-brained! They drive everywhere! Meeting a client in Back Bay? Drive there and complain about how hard it is to find parking. They all think the more lanes the better.
Anon
Anon HATES his life. Lol.
Did we find common ground?
Maybe if both sides can unite in their disgust of Catherine Vitale we can set aside our differences to productively find a solution together.
The city presented the
The city presented the solution. Car nuts just don’t want to hear it.
I'd rather have traffic
I'd rather have traffic congestion that dead pedestrians.
West Roxbury Road Diet
Your article is being totally dishonest. That was not my argument or even an argument at all. Only having a minute to voice your concerns is not enough time to express your concerns. You know exactly what one of my concerns is. What you are calling an argument was more of a statement. I asked the “City Streets Chief,” Jascha Franklin-Hodge to be more honest and stop misleading people on that particular incident.
Let’s start with the Boston Transportation Department’s own data. The city has done a traffic study on Centre Street and their data show that approximately 16,000 cars use Centre St per day. The Boston Transportation Department also states, that if 20,000 cars or more used Centre St per day then a road diet (reducing the travel lanes) would NOT be used or recommended.
So, if 20,000 cars or more used Centre St, then the Boston Transportation Department would obviously have to come up with a safety plan that does not include a road diet and does not reduce the travel lanes on Centre Street. However, the City and the Boston Transportation Department keep saying that there can be no safety plan to address safety along Centre St unless there is a road diet and travel lanes are reduced. The two just don’t add up. You can’t say that there is no alternative to safety unless there is a reduction of travel lanes but then at the same time, say, if there were over 20,000 cars using Centre St, then we could not and would not recommend a reduction of travel lanes along Centre St.
Obviously if there were 20,000 cars or more using Centre St then the City would provide the residents of our neighborhood a safety plan that does not include a road diet or a reduction of the travel lanes. From the very beginning (over four years ago), all I have asked is that the City and the Boston Transportation Department provide at least one safety plan that does not reduce the travel lanes along Centre St and then let the residents decide which they would prefer.
My main concerns (about a reduction of travel lanes) and solutions (for adding safety) along Centre St are:
⁃ Safety In Our Residential Neighborhoods. Whenever you add more cars or traffic to a street, it is more dangerous. By reducing the travel lanes along Centre St, (which is a commercial district) more cars will be cutting through our residential neighborhoods making the residential neighborhoods less safe (even with the addition of speed bumps or stop signs).
⁃ On-Demand Traffic Signals. These traffic signals only turn red when a pedestrian presses the button to cross the street at a crosswalk (they stay green the rest of the time in order to keep traffic flowing). The Boston Transportation Department states, that these would cause more traffic. But how could they cause more traffic? With or without on-demand traffic signals, cars still must stop when someone is crossing the street. Crossing the street with a red light is much safer than without a red light. And this is exactly why the City added a traffic signal by the Lyndon School and YMCA on Centre Street. The Boston Transportation Department knows that crossing any street with a red light to assist a pedestrian is the safest method.
⁃ Adding on-demand traffic signals at three or four locations along Centre Street would basically solve all pedestrian safety along Centre St.
⁃ The locations where on-demand traffic signals are needed are:
⁃ 1. Esther Rd Crosswalk by the Roche Center and 7-Eleven
⁃ 2. Maple Street by the Post Office
⁃ 3. Hastings Street by Sugar Bakery
⁃ 4. Quinn Way by Metro Bank that leads to Billings Field
⁃ The Boston Transportation Department studied Centre St over four years ago. And they have stated how dangerous it is for any pedestrian along Centre Street. Yet, for over four years they have failed to enact basically any safety measures along Centre St. This is an absolute disgrace! How could they allow this for over four years?
⁃ It is an absolute disgrace that the Boston Transportation Department has not added painted on bike symbols /lanes on the current road configuration along Centre Street to help inform and educate drivers on how to better share the road with cyclists. And that they haven’t added signage along Centre St to help educate and inform drivers on how to better share the road with cyclists. Unfortunately, I have noticed that the City does not have a good track record at keeping such painted-on symbols and lanes well-maintained. These painted-on symbols and lanes wear out all the time and the Boston Transportation Department in many instances is very slow to repaint the symbols and lanes.
⁃ Adding on-demand traffic signals and painted-on bike lanes/symbols and signage to the current road configuration would be the most cost-effective.
For the Boston Transportation Department’s “City Streets Chief” Jascha Franklin-Hodge to state that a woman was killed inside a crosswalk while crossing Centre Street is an absolute disgrace and brings into question his credibility and honesty. The head of homicide that investigated that accident has clearly stated that the pedestrian was not in a crosswalk and sun glare was a major factor in that accident. One death or any any injury along Centre St is too many. For the city to have ignored Centre St for over four years is unfathomable. The Boston Transportation Department has done quite a bit of research and “City Streets Chief” Joshua Franklin Hodge had to have known that the pedestrian was not in a crosswalk. Why he would say that baffles me. The residents of West Roxbury deserve to see multiple safety plans that address safety along Centre St. We deserve to see a plan that does not include a reduction of travel lanes along Centre St as well as a plan that does. And the residents of West Roxbury should have the most input on any such plan because it will be our residential neighborhoods that will be affected with more traffic thus making the residential neighborhoods more dangerous.
Thank you for expanding on the issues with the plan
But, sorry, you did bring up the issue of where Marilyn Wentworth was when she was hit and killed.
where is this report?
Every report and story I can find says she was in the crosswalk.
There is a history of anti-cyclist bias in Boston Homicide. They blamed a cyclist for going under the real wheel of a speeding 18wheeler that violated the law by not yielding to the victim after passing her. They called the victim negligent although for operating her bicycle legally.
CBS news, NBC, FOX are all lying? please post a link.
My glare safety message
I'm going to take this opportunity to remind everyone that your shadow points towards those who can't see you (the longer your shadow the worse their vision of you is too).
This is something that all motorcyclists, bicyclists and pedestrians should keep in mind because the clarity which which you can see a car approaching you is very different to what the view 180 degrees and through a pane of glass looks like.
stop blaming the victim
If you can't see through the glare then pull over and stop driving.
How fast
Was the driver going when he struck and killed Mrs Wentworth? I engaged with another she wasn't in the crosswalk person recently,I asked him if it was okay she was hit then? Why bring it up. I see people speed and ignore people in the crosswalk all the time. The little girl that had her foot run over was in the crosswalk. Slowing traffic is the only solution. I say this was a life long resident and some one who uses the street on a regular basis. A few more minutes in traffic is worth some ones life
Did they tell where this
Did they tell where this report is?
There is a history of anti
Are you talking about Anita Kurmann, or some other incident?
Yes
Yes
That's what I thought.
That's what I thought.
I didn't remember speeding being a part of that, so I searched back through Adam's archive and googled articles from other sources (including bike advocacy sources) to refresh my memory.
I didn't find any report or analysis that supports any contention that the truck driver was speeding.
A strong argument can certainly be made for "hit and run", but that's it.
-
Maybe you had it confused with something else.
Inflaming this discussion with incorrect recollections is not helpful.
He was late he was speeding.
He was late he was speeding. I can't find the massbike video, but the truck went through that intersection twice. Heading north on Mass Ave he missed the turn on beacon. He went to Cambridge turned around. He came back. The video shows him passing her then swerving to the left to make room for his turn.
Would you like some ranch dressing?
To go with your word salad?
Remember, your convenience should not come at the expense of other people's safety.
Regarding the 20,000 threshold
I think you completely missed the point, which was not that the road diet couldn't be implemented with traffic above that threshold, but that so long as traffic remains below it, then the road diet will not negatively impact car flow. Centre Street should not carry 20,000 vehicles daily, and if it did, true safety advocates would still favor a road diet, in order to reduce that demand.
The Boston Transportation
Surely it couldn't have been due to all of the ill-informed and/or bad-faith blowback from people like yourself...
Ultimately it's the fault of
Ultimately it's the fault of BTD.
There's also all the other dangerous roads in Boston that don't have West Roxbury people complaining about proposed improvements.
Sure, but
"They haven't done anything about it yet" is a pretty bad reason for them to not do anything about it now.
centre street
Amazing, all of these pseudo experts who oppose this are now blaming the City for not taking action sooner. The City has tried and been attacked by these very same people over the years. I am very familiar with this roadway and avoid it all costs.
Also, they *have* done some things
The pseudo experts have also conveniently left out the things enumerated in presentation that actually have been accomplished plus some things they considered and why those were rejected.
@ Cryin Brian
I'm from West Roxbury. My voice counts too. The city's plan addresses all your problems. Except lane reduction. But it's 2023 and you need to learn to share. Also learn that sometimes you gotta pull yourself up by your bootstraps and realize you don't get to have it your way just because you cry the loudest. That's all.
"be more honest and stop misleading people"
The meeting was not an inquest, it was about a street design.
Is it fair to say you claimed he was being dishonest, as opposed to being incorrect, and misleading, for a purpose known or unknown? Do you want to spell it out?
Whether or not the deceased was in the crosswalk, the collision cost her life. Are the facts of this unintentional vehicular homicide determinative of an argument for or against the new street design? I think not.
Can I rightly presume the intent of your ask was to discredit Jascha and his case for the new street design? It seems to me your ask was political and argumentative, not compelling or salient.
Uh...physics is hard
If there were 25% MORE cars on Centre St per day, there wouldn't be any ROOM for anyone to kill anyone with a car because it'd be a parking lot.
If there were 20,000+ cars on Centre St per day, you couldn't remove any lanes safely because they would be full of cars all the time and it'd be safer because nobody could get up to 25 mph let alone 30+ switching lanes, making U-turns, etc.
Your word salad comment is mighty contradictory on its face
You seem to be deliberately misleading while accusing everyone else of the same.
-- So you only had a minute and you chose to spend it on victim blaming?
-- You have an issue that the BTD greats a plan based on actual real-world conditions? You want them to spend money and time on creating a plan for the wrong conditions so you can choose the wrong solution for the real conditions? A safety plan is only safe if it addresses the expected conditions. Do you expect the same safety plan for a kitchen step stool versus a ladder up to a roof? If one has a compound leg fracture, would one also want a treatment option optimal for a greenstick fracture?
-- Road diets do not increase traffic simply because you assume/fear they will. That's why agencies match the solution to the actual capacity and volume.
https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road_diets/resources/pdf/roadDiet_MythBuster...
-- Road users deserve safety at every crossing, not just 3-4 along the whole stretch.
-- Following the law is every drivers obligation and part of the test they took, however long ago. Signage everywhere for every rule they pretend they have forgotten/are ignorant of to justify their bad driving is not scalable. Some drivers ignore Stop signs. A safety plan, such as a road diet, that makes good driving easier and more likely than bad requires less effort on the part of drivers.
-- Yes, paint wears out, which is why hardscape changes are more effective than paint with no other cues.
-- You complain is that the City didn't do anything for four years, which was in response to the vocal minority's outcry
-- "One death or any any injury along Centre St is too many." But apparently not too many if you don't get your preferred solution.
Weird pettiness from you:
-- quotes for Jascha Franklin-Hodge's title. Not standard style but if that's what you prefer, I will refer to you as -- "Real Estate Professional", Brian Kennneally -- going forward.
-- why you harp on one incident as the yardstick for any changes baffles me. It's almost like you don't care about a true discussion but are throwing up every objection to see what sticks. Please pick your spaghetti off the floor and engage with the topic collaboratively (so we come to a consensus) rather than adversarially (where the primary goal is to "win" and for the other participants to "lose").
"Real Estate Professional", Brian Kennneally, much of your assertions could be marked [citation needed]. My internet searching so far has only come up with studies that run counter to your statements. While you are of course not obligated to do so, I would appreciate any links you can share that have evidence-based sources or industry-wide best-practices.
Logical Fallacies detected in "Real Estate Professional", Brian Kennneally's comment above:
1. The Straw Man Fallacy
2. The Bandwagon Fallacy
4. The False Dilemma Fallacy
5. The Hasty Generalization Fallacy
7. The Correlation/Causation Fallacy
8. The Anecdotal Evidence Fallacy
9. The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy
12. The Personal Incredulity Fallacy
13. The "No True Scotsman" Fallacy
I don't live in WR, but I did
I don't live in WR, but I did go to school there, and spent plenty of time on Centre st. over the years. It's been a while, but I don't remember any particular problems while either driving or walking the street. Was it covid, or something? I read down the comments, and you people really sound deranged. Where do they send all the dead bodies after all these auto homicides? Did people really forget how to cross a street? I'm a regular pedestrian, and I've had some close calls in crosswalks, but I don't recall living in a combat zone like West Roxbury seems to have become. Can't we all just get along?
Flag on play, logical fallacies detected
8. The Anecdotal Evidence Fallacy
12. The Personal Incredulity Fallacy
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/common-logical-fallacies
Bunch of belly aching
It’s absolutely not a problem. It’s basically people jumping into crosswalks whenever they want, and even cars going 20mph or under have a tough time stopping. Most of the belly aching on here are people that don’t live around here or are new to the area. How bout, removing the crosswalks not at traffic lights? The majority of those crosswalks didn’t exist a few years back. It’s the mayor pushing her agenda on bike lanes and less fossil fuels and bringing the city to a crawl traffic wise. Finally, whoever commented about Weld st? I’ve lived in the area for 44 years, don’t remember many accidents or pedestrians being hit. There’s not enough traffic for that light at Church st, which was originally a 4-way stop sign. Think for yourselves people!
Another person that doesn't
Another person that doesn't care about human life. You don't remember people being hit because you are selfish.
Yes, please
I live on Spring St., near the VA, drive mostly everywhere, and am wholly supportive of this. The Center-Spring corridor is a toxic mess and needs to be throttled down.
FWIW, I think that the city’s meek attempt to restore some sanity to the road - in the absence of any police enforcement of laws - through the rolling red light regime that would have a driver going the speed limit stop at most lights between about Lagrange and Roche Bros tends to backfire by giving further inducement to drivers to floor it to beat the reds.
Better traffic light timing
Better traffic light timing would reward driving the speed limit and punish speeding. Time the lights so that if you speed, the next light won't have turned green yet when you get there.
This has nothing to do with bike lanes
This has nothing to do with bike lanes. It has everything to do with a group of people that have grown accustom to not hearing the word "No". People who are used to living in a world that caters to them and them only. This is about maintaining the status quo. This is about managing who is and is not welcome in their version of West Roxbury. This isn't about bike lanes. This is rooted in something much darker. This type of "not in my backyard" and "ask the people who live here" rhetoric has Tucker Carlson dogwhistle written all over it. If you live here (like I do) you'll know that this type of hate runs rampant around here. Read between the lines. Look who this "safety" movement has aligned with and look who they are trying to protect. This is about more than bike lanes and we need to point it out as such.
It is about perspective
These people grew up in a time that the city was relatively empty. They were born after the car industry lobby convinced cities to demolish the trolly lines that ran up and down these 4 lane urban streets. They don't realize that jaywalking was invented by car manufacturers that didn't want Congress to put speed governors in automobiles. They were also born after Boston reached its maximum population in the fifties. Boston had 100,000 more residents but about 25% of the cars that it currently has. And strangely everyone had jobs and the economy boomed. These people don't understand how unnatural Centre Street has become.
My Only Problem With This Plan is I Wish it Was Happening Sooner
My parents moved to West Roxbury in the early 70's (they still live here) and my husband and I have lived on Weld St for 15+ years. When my kid walks home from school it shouldn't be a scary option. Takes a longer way home because NOT allowed to walk through the Holy Name Rotary - and that's in front of the police station!
Thrilled to see this plan moving forward.
I'd love to also see more Road Safety on Weld Street. While we've lived here 3 times drivers speeding have totalled parked cars in front of our (or an immediate neighbor's) house. I'm amazed (and grateful) no one has been killed yet.
CENTRE STREET
This has certainly hit home for many of us. Don't know but probably has elicited more comments than anything else recently Let us hope the City will follow through.
Expanding thinking here
As a lifelong WR resident, we should have some more out-of-the-box thinking.
A huge number of Centre Street cars are cut-through-ers, trying to drive somewhere further out, but stuck because West Roxbury is nowhere near an interstate.
If Boston and the state built a one lane (per direction) onramp from 128 down the Commuter rail line exiting at Westie High, then at 25%-50% of the Centre street drivers would instead head down Corey/Lagrange/Baker onto VFW to get onto 128.
Then there would no issues dieting Centre Street to a lane each way to support people who actually want to shop there instead of pass through. Dual bike lanes is probably overkill, maybe one car lane turns into a two-way bikelane, and the other lane switch to angled parking. A compromise that would keep a lot of competing interests happy.
Apples and Orange-Feathered Birds?
Instead of a road diet you are proposing a massive infrastructure project? I mean, I could go for both if the DOT determined it was the best solution to the whole area. But instead of something sooner for a lot less money? No thank you.
This is not a serious suggestion
You want to build a 1.5 mile exit ramp from 128 to VFW that would evidently eliminate the outer Needham Line or alternatively involve a build through a swamp and park land? Not something anybody is going to seriously consider, nor would it even address the problem, because people would still use Centre Street to reach the feeder streets.
Centre and Spring Streets
The reason why Spring and Centre are so wide is that the Route 36 trolley (and then the Route 36 trolleybus) operated there, which meant there was an exclusive lane for the trolley and a lane for cars. When they ended the trolleys in 1951 and the trolleybuses in 1958, the lanes expanded for car drivers. Also, with the extension of Route 128 through Dedham, the two lanes afforded a semi-straight shot between Needham and West Roxbury.
Nevertheless, Centre and Spring Streets can be absolute crapshoots. I frequently walk over there, and the worst spots are at Richwood Street and Quinn Way, where the cars ascend and descend from a short hill and pick up speed. One time I was walking from CVS and a car didn't even bother to stop...until an unmarked police car turned his lights on and pulled them over.