A couple days ago, we considered an incident at Stony Brook involving a fat-shaming doofus and the woman he made cry.
A man who says he also watched the incident unfold explains why crying lady wasn't exactly Miss Innocent, that, in fact, she had been subtly tormenting the guy and an older woman she sat between from Downtown Crossing all the way into JP.
This woman proceeded to play her Nintendo DS, not with earphones on but with the system speakers set at a selfishly loud volume. To me this was becoming surreal and potentially escalating to a point of intentionally provoked confrontation. She seemed to be deriving great satisfaction from the discomfort she was causing those around her. If there was ever a way to instigate confrontation on the subway she was doing a great job. The gentleman to her right, no longer able to contain himself, said "Can you please turn that down?" To my utter excitement ( I admit it, I had front row seats and this was pure entertainment) She TURNED THE VOLUME HIGHER like a defiant, petulant child would, to purposely anger him. Subsequently, as though it couldn't get worse she physically shoved both her elbows into her neighbors in a blatant show of further undeniable violation of personal space.
Alison, who wrote the first post, replies (Note: That will bring up a copy stored here on UHub - seems somebody keeps getting the Craigslist version deleted).
Via Boston Reddit.
| Attachment | Size |
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 Original poster's rebuttal | 3.48 KB |
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Comments
ZOMG!!!111
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:38pm
DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA!
Really our commutes on the MBTA are bad enough already without this juvenile reality TV style B.S. getting publicized and promoted.
Pathetic
By relaxyapsycho
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:33pm
I'm not sure what's more pathetic. The amount of comments this story is generating or that I can't stop reading every. single. one.
This "victim" sounds like a real jerk!
By Lmo
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:45pm
A woman shoehorns her ass into a seat on the orange line.... You won't believe what happens next!
Doesn't excuse being a misogynist asshole
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:12pm
So they are both jerks. It doesn't justify his assholery one bit.
Time for all the special young snowflake babies of the baby boomers to grow up.
Misogynist?
By Michael Kerpan
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:17pm
No basis for this assumption, at all...
How do you know that the "insulter" would not have said the same thing to a male "personal space violator"?
Mindreader, perhaps?
because they don't
By cmbeat
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:58pm
Men do this to women, whether it's reported to Reddit or not. They typically don't do it to men and if they do, it's more of a confrontational way instead of whispering in her ear so she is shamed and doesn't feel she can be in a public space without being cowardly attacked. These guys know that if they did it out loud, there's the potential for someone to defend her. This way, they don't get confronted and they diminish her self esteem and trust in the rest of the people around her (no one defended me!). Neither is accidental. And it is misogyny because it is telling her she doesn't deserve to be in public unless she fits what he considers to be the allowable shape for a woman. He might have been more inclined to do it because of her behavior (which makes her an asshole too - just a different kind) but he's indicated he's that kind of guy and would have done it to someone anyway (nor was it his first time).
How do I know this - I got sick, went on medication and gained a lot of weight quickly while this was being diagnosed and figured out. I was walking an hour a day, working out 3 times a week minimum and eating at most 1200 calories a day (part of being sick). Very upsetting and disorienting on it's own. But if I went into a public space or god forbid, ate in public, I was whispered to as well. And I wasn't playing on my nintendo either.
If you want to know someone's true character, look at how they treat clerks, waiters, and people heavier than the norm. Eye opening.
He didn't whisper it in her ear
By BostonUrbEx
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:15pm
He flat out said it that the male witness heard it.
You people sure do have a low
By davery
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:23pm
You people sure do have a low bar for misogyny these days.
You people?
By Michael Kerpan
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:27pm
Who is "you people"? Do you think the post with a silly accusation of "misogyny" was written by a committee of some sort?
Well, it is an improvement
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:50pm
The poster is forced to admit that women are actually people, even when "othering" assertive women.
Now he just needs to actually treat women like people. What a challenge!
I just said you people to see
By davery
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:15pm
I just said you people to see what kind of funny stuff you would say. Just another microaggression the oppressed have to face each and every day.
Amen to that
By MB
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:19pm
Amen to that
misogyny, you keep using that word
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:45pm
It does not mean what you think it does. It means "hatred of women."
It does not mean "confronting a person who squeezes two people by forcing their way into a seat not big enough for them, whips out a video game and plays it loudly, and when asked to turn it down, turns it up even louder."
tldr version: confronting someone for extremely anti-social behavior is not automatically misogynistic because they're a woman, just like a woman who confronts a man for something they're doing is not automatically being misandric.
So you were there?
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:55pm
And you witnessed this woman "forcing" and "squeezing" into a seat?
Or are you taking the testimony of the person who decided that she was too fat to be in public as an authority on fitting into seats?
It was written by some other
By davery
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:17pm
It was written by some other witness, not the guy involved.
testimony, lol
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:41pm
So apparently the testimony of the first original CL-poster is more reliable than the other person? They're both...anonymous...craigslist...postings.
Or are you being sexist, and attributing one specific poster's comments more honesty because she's a woman? That there is misogyny and sexism against women does not mean that in one specific case, this particular woman is more honest or trustworthy.
How about the people on reddit and here who recognized the woman from the description of her behavior and described similarly asshole-y behavior?
OMG PATRIARCHY PENIS CONSPIRACY!
You people like to use the word mysogynist as a crutch.
By jonbowen
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 1:48pm
Stop being such a useless bitch.
Stop being....
By Michael Kerpan
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 4:04pm
... someone who flings about unnecessary invective.
The true jerk
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:18pm
is the women who wrote the original post on CL. She tried to turn a confrontation between two jerks into a one-sided issue.
Maybe she was in town early
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:47pm
Maybe she was in town early for the anime convention.
Jerk
By BostonUrbEx
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:50pm
So, you can use your weight to be a jerk, but nobody can be a jerk to you back. Right. Got it.
Indeed
By MattyC
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:54pm
Psychic trauma begets psychic trauma. News at 11. She deserved to feel some amount of discomfort based on how she acted, if the observer's recounting is to be believed. I don't really care how it was delivered. He didn't punch her in the fat roll, he punched her in the mind. She actually elbowed him in the chest. Point goes to the gentleman, I believe.
On fat-shaming and rudeness
By Jenn Martinelli
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:51pm
While I despise to my core with the heat of a thousand suns rude and ridiculous people who exhibit the type of behavior described in the original rebuttal (the woman sitting on people, playing her game loudly, turning up the volume to antagonize), none of that gives someone the right to fat-shame her.
I agree completely with the original poster's rebuttal - the comment about losing weight is not constructive, has nothing to do with her rude behavior, and only serves to be mean and belittle her. It's about making her feel like shit about herself for being overweight, period.
I have no problem at all calling people out for rude behavior on the train, in fact I do it often (to no effect of course) myself, but there is no call for bringing weight into the matter.
"shoehorns" her bulk ...
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:16pm
More like "she sat in a seat when some pinhead asshole wanted to air out his balls" and got fatshamed for it.
I have a very average sized ass and have been called a "fat bitch" because I wanted to sit in my seat and have that seat to myself and not share half of it with a male stranger pushing me aside to bro sit.
Of course the obvious retort is: If I'm fat, then why are you the one who thinks you need more than a seat?
Note: this has happened far more than once. Women who insist on not sharing their seat with a man who doesn't fit or thinks he "needs" that room are "fat".
And what was the offense of the other passenger...
By Michael Kerpan
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:34pm
... the older lady, who also was reportedly crushed by the sit-down-in-the-middle, noisy-game-playing, sensitive soul?
If it was a debate then yes,
By RhoninFire
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:29pm
If it was a debate then yes, attacking her weight does not anything to the argument. It only seeks inflict some type of pain without any argument teaching what is wrong.
However, this wasn't a debate. It was some type of conflict where both sides allegedly were trying to just making each other day worse. You can almost say it was a battle of malice, but going from this Craigslist post, the person bringing up fat said it as a way to bring a negative consequence to her allegedly hostile actions.
You're right this would not make any argument. But then we have to take account that plenty of actions from sentencing law (despite much is structured to rehabilitate) breaking to merely grounding a child operate on the same idea. None makes any argument why an action is wrong, it just sets that so-so bad action means you get pained in some way.
Well said!!!!
By Just Sayin'
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:52pm
This piece of writing is brilliant! I would love to buy a drink for the guy who made the initial comment as well as the guy who penned this!
Crazy shit
By Dan Farnkoff
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:53pm
From this story it sounds like the lady might have had some mental health issues, with which these two tough prideful Bostonians seemed to have none too much sympathy at 5:20 pm. Makes me glad I don't ride the T anymore during rush hour, quite honestly. As far as this one line from Alison's reply to the reply:
I've definitely seen people, both male and female, comment on the weight of obese males in a derogatory way. Although it's still not nice.
My response to Allison:
By Hyde_Parker
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:03pm
My response to Allison:
It's NEVER OKAY to play your video game on the T without headphones. Never, ever, ever. Next to nail clipping, un-headphoned music is one of the cardinal sins of public-transit riders.
Yeah, two wrongs don't make a right, but knowing both sides of the story, I'm almost ready to applaud that man's parting remark.
ETA: It seems that music was through headphones, but they weren't doing much good.
How do you feel about people
By Robert Paulson
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:08pm
How do you feel about people who pick their new ringtone on the train..slowly, loudly, listening to each and every preloaded sound.
They should be thrown in
By stephencaldwell
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:34pm
They should be thrown in front of said train.
^^^^ That's exactly how I
By Hyde_Parker
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 6:05pm
^^^^ That's exactly how I feel about it!
You know what?
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:53pm
The trains themselves raise a deafening clatter - why does any of this matter?
I am noise averse, and yet I manage to use public transit without fat-hating and without incident.
I also travel by rail and plane a lot and stay in hotels with less than good soundproofing.
You know how that works? I use noise cancelling headphones and earplugs. Simple.
That's an immature view if
By MB
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:29pm
That's an immature view if you mean the people around her should be using headphones. I shouldn't be forced to listen to other peoples music or video games.
How about...
By jon_
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 11:57pm
...the idiots who feel they have to sing along (or more frequently, RAP along) with what they're listening to in their headphones? Annoying as f***
I've got one that rivals loud music / video game noise
By MC Slim JB
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 11:06pm
Eating stinky fast food on public transportation. Not cool, man: not cool. Too many public-transit junk-horfers leave their trash behind, to boot, leaving a smelly echo of their rudeness for later riders to endure.
Can't say I find any of this second-hand accounting of bad public behavior particularly trustworthy, but neither do I find either side of this sorry story hard to believe. A shame more people aren't miserable human beings to strangers. Too bad it's a fallen world.
Wow
By Cappy
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:54pm
That entire story is really, really......uninteresting. The fact that it was originally reported by Boston.com (The Globe) is pitiful.
What are Globe staffers doing trolling Craigslist missed connections? At least do it in secret but as part of their news making/reporting?
Again just , wow.
Dumb people fighting is what a large percentage of our entertainment and now news seems to be.
America. What a country.
http://cappyinboston.blogspot.com/
I have to agree with you.
By Hyde_Parker
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:02pm
I have to agree with you. Someone is rude on public transit/someone is rude back. That doesn't seem to rise to the level of the Boston Globe.
Good Point
By BostonDog
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 9:14pm
Given that it's a Boston local news story and not a slideshow this seems to exceed the standards of the Boston Globe considerably.
FYI
By nightmoves
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:05pm
The original CL MC was forwarded to the media (Glob, Jezebel, etc) by the psychotic radfem.
Is she pyschotic b/c she has
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:18pm
Is she pyschotic b/c she has mental issues or because she is radiacal or is b/c she is a feminist? Just curious b/c being a radical feminist shouldn't be derogatory.
There's nothing wrong with
By davery
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:19pm
There's nothing wrong with being psychotic. Your ablism is disgusting.
The "new" Boston Dot Com
By cybah
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:08pm
Remember this is "The New BDC"...
This is also the same website that gives is "10 most popular burger places" or what Tom and Giselle are wiping their asses with today.
Are we really surprised they sucked up this story and made a big deal out of it?
Expect to see more of this half-ass, lazy reporting on trivial crap like this..
Wasn't originally reported by boston.com
By adamg
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:16pm
I think Steve Annear at Boston Magazine had it first. Dunno if he saw it on Jezebel or got it some other way. Then I linked to it. Then boston.com linked to it with that stupid headline. Sorry. it wasn't a stupid headline. It was a joke. The reporter who posted the thing for them is still very upset that I am taking that headline seriously when not only was it a joke, they told me it was a joke, and yet I refuse to apologize for being too dense to realize it was a joke.
Ahem, anyway ...
He'll get over it.
By brianjdamico
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:09pm
He'll get over it.
Cappy's should probably have been the last comment on this.
By Dan Farnkoff
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:38pm
Oh well. Here's one more!
Funny, I believe both of them
By anonnona
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 12:55pm
Funny, I believe both of them, what a pathetic story, however. The gentleman's account is almost photographically accurate, so I believe his account, but I think it is also unnecessary to talk to a stranger about their weight. Interesting though on the T etiquette.
I am not huge but a middle-aged to aging 6 foot man. I never sit down on the empty middle seat if the two seats surrounding it are occupied because I am too big. However, if someone is sitting in the middle seat and the two seats on either side of the person is empty, I sit down on one of them, assuming the person will slide over to the empty seat, leving an empty seat between us. I don't consider myself rude doing this, but please correct me if you feel that is incorrect.
I get on and off at the end of the line when the train is usually less than half full. I see people put bags on empty seats next to them or sit in the middle as if they expect the car will not fill up, and it always does.
Rudeness is not exclusive
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:03pm
"would a man say such a thing to another man? Would a woman say such a thing to a man? "
Well, uh, YES they would. I don't know what makes "Alison" think this kind of rudeness is exclusive to males saying it to females. I've heard women calling men "chubbo", among other things. And just today I overheard a young woman on the T speaking into her cell phone "he'd be alright if it wasn't for his hairline..." Granted, she wasn't saying it to someone's face, but she said it. And a hairline isn't something that can be helped. Weight can be controlled in most circumstances.
At some point the concept of
By davery
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:27pm
At some point the concept of white male privilege turned into a misguided believe that everyone on Earth is really really nice to white guys, all the time, no matter what.
Is bald-shaming a thing?
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:37pm
If it is Tumblr doesn't seem very interested in it, and Tumblr is interest in all kinds of shaming
Well UHub is the home of
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:27pm
Neighborhood-shaming (Southie) and Transportation-Shaming (cars)....
you're comparing apples and helicopters
By pierce
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:09pm
after all, southie is home to a good many of island mentality and has played host to more than its fair share of isms and phobias in recent memory. And cars played a huge role in irrevocably altering the american landscape and eviscerating city and country alike.
What do you have on bald people?
Bald shaming
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 5:29pm
"Is bald-shaming a thing?"
It most assuredly is. A woman where I work was mad at the boss for basically being a jerk and she said (out of his earshot of course) "that bald headed bastard!". Now I'm sure the reason she was annoyed with him is because he is a dick and a terrible boss, not because he is follicle challenged. Likewise, I'm sure the guy on the T was more annoyed with the fat woman because she was an obnoxious jerk rather than the fact that she's a fatso. Although I have to wonder what the mad woman at work would have shouted about the dickhead boss if he had looked like Brad Pitt.
He's luck the trashy bit*h didn't stab him
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:26pm
http://www.universalhub.com/crime/20140110/police-...
Bet that really hit home.
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 1:31pm
This is essentially the choice all fat people must make. Be nice or lose weight... Sadly, being nice doesn't blind people to your weight.... Sometimes it just makes them meaner.
Well
By bosguy22
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:11pm
Would it have been better if he made fun of her haircut? Her clothes? Whether she wore glasses? The guy was pissed she was acting like an a-hole, he probably looked at her and saw she was overweight, and that's the first insult that popped into his head. I'd guess if you asked him today, he probably regrets it, but I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing of someone was purposely trying to antagonize me. I know I've called my brother a fatass a few times in his life when he's made me angry.
It's more than that.
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:14pm
It's not just that her size was a convenient insult to grab: her size was core to her offense in that, according to his version of the story, she sat on people.
Just making an observation
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:28pm
I have just as much if not more potential to be as mean as the next guy.... Making excuses for it doesn't make the world a kinder place.
One is not like the other
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:13pm
Shaming someone because of their religion.
Shaming someone because of their race.
Shaming someone because of their sexual orientation.
Shaming someone because of their weight.
One is not like the other: one pertains to behavior, the others pertain to essence.
It's entirely appropriate for someone who fails to manage his or her caloric intake, or who is addicted to nicotine or opiates, or who is a drinking alcoholic, to feel a certain amount of shame over the self-destructive behavior in which they engage. It is never appropriate for anyone to feel shame over his or her race, religion, or sexual orientation.
With that said, deliberately shaming a stranger over any of these, is obnoxious, rude, and uncouth. Responding rudely to rude behavior is never a good idea.
There's a fair amount of research
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:25pm
Showing that addiction, weight, etc. is less of a personal moral failure and more physiological/ neurological, or "essence".... Certainly as much or more than religion. We can't shame the Phelps clan for their religion?
No, we can't shame the Phelps clan for their religion
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:24pm
only for their behavior.
Religion is entirely internal, and invisible to the outside observer.
I see what you did there
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:30pm
You turned religion into spirituality to make a point. Nice move
Well, two
By Lecil
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:43pm
Religion is a choice.
It must also be nice to be perfect and therefore in just the right place to judge what you feel to be others' failures.
I'm not perfect
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:32pm
In fact, I'm overweight. And duly ashamed of it.
Shaming?
By Cappy
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:05pm
Is this new lexicon? Shaming means insulting?
If someone sits on my lap on the T. (has happened more than twice) and I say, "Excuse me Gigantor, I actually need that leg to WALK on when we get where I'm going. Is you're ass numb? You don't feel my leg under it? You also didn't see me sitting in the exact spot you put your ass? REALLY? How about get up and go sit somewhere where you FIT?"
I wish I had known I was shaming this guy. I mean I still would have said exactly what I said the way I said it but then I could have said,
"Now you've been SHAMED! So Don't sit on people and you won't BE shamed!"
That would have been great. By the way. I was texting and walked into a lady who called me a dickhead. I didn't feel shamed. I felt like a dickhead.
Oh well.
When did this whole ___
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:14pm
When did this whole ___-shaming thing start? Its like insrt *blank* here and you're not allowed to comment on it. Shame is a part of life. Its how you better yourself. Its motivation.
Hey
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:37pm
Don't try and shame my _____-shaming agenda.
Wrong
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 2:48pm
Shame is not a necessary part of life, and shaming other isn't "motivation" but social control.
See also: BULLYING
Clearly its not "social
By anon
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 3:02pm
Clearly its not "social control" if she's still fat. Or maybe she has superpowers that allow her to still be fat despite the overwhelming "social controls" of society.
We need some sort of Godwin's Law for the word "bullying"
By Nancy
Fri, 03/21/2014 - 4:09pm
Shame is not the same as BULLYING. I know that it's really trendy to use the words bullying and bully but they're not even close to being the same
Shame is feeling bad about yourself after you stole a cookie from a child while distracting him with a new Lego figurine.
Bullying is what happened to my sweet, brilliant, beautiful, autistic four year old nephew at his old school. Bullying is the reason he's in counseling and had to change schools.
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