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Oh yay
So this is the latest iteration of colleges competing with each other to offer the best little perks for students, I guess?
Omelette bar in the dining hall!
Climbing wall in the gym!
Armored personnel carriers with turret-mounted .50-cal machine guns! Don't worry Mom 'n Dad, we're super well-trained.
50 cal? Did I miss that part
50 cal? Did I miss that part? You are a perfect candidate for this blog.
and youre the perfect candidate
to showcase the death of understanding the literary device known as 'hyperbole' which is commonly employed for comedic reasons, among others, including incredulity as well as discontent.
edit: also i really enjoy that you took exception to the caliber of the ammunition being exaggerated and not the fact that he mentioned the fictitious APC. don't worry dude. the government isn't going to take your guns.
Why is it?
Whenever anyone writes something even slightly in favor of gun control, pro-gun people jump all over any technical description in the initial comment as if it negates the sentiment?
I have no idea what the difference is between an automatic weapon, machine gun, cartridge, magazine, clip, etc. I honestly don't give a shit about the terminology. I'm opposed to weapons which make it easy to shoot a lot of people quickly irrespective of what it's called.
Regarding the University police departments, they are far more likely get stolen or used to kill innocent civilians then they will be used to stop a terrorist attack. Being caught in cross fire isn't a preferable outcome.
Because it usually indicates
Because it usually indicates the person pushing for something doesn't have a reasonable familiarity with the subject.
Gun fetishists LIVE for that
It's a way to demonstrate their manly manliness and show that those dumb libturds don't know nothin! You see, their pathetic over-compensating obsession with firearms renders their opinion more valid than everyone else's.
And they take it so seriously they can't even detect a joke.
one wonders
What would Freud have to say about America's gun mania?
If you dont know what it is
How do you know what a proposed ban will eliminate?
Nice derail attempt
No one's talking about a ban; you can turn off the floodlights and stand down. People are talking about a bunch of campus cops being loaded up with enough iron to fight a small war. Really, if you're knowledgeable on the subject of firearms, do you think this is appropriate? For campus cops? And to not even notify the Boston PD?
police
I don't know how to tell you this, but many municipal and city departments throughout the U.S. already have long guns available, and many have them in the trunks of their cruisers. NEU and BUPD are fully accredited law enforcement officers who go to the same academy as any MA town's force would. Of course they would notify BPD and other local departments if there was a credible threat to safety, but they are also responsible for public safety because they are real police.
Did you think they are mall cops with no training who are supposed to just call everything in to BPD? I'm curious how much you know -- or think you know -- on the subject.
Don't you get annoyed when a
Don't you get annoyed when a bunch of bible-belt rednecks try to lecture scientists about evolution and climate change?
I have no idea what the
Well you should, if you want to have an informed opinion on gun control. I don't know why you'd proudly announce ignorance on the subject while trying to make the point that people are quick to jump in and correct the technical aspects. Of course they are going to do that when many past gun control measures are promoted by the uninformed, and focus on cosmetic or otherwise worthless features that do not make any difference in how dangerous a weapon is.
Miltraism For People Who Scored Lower on the Cop Exam
Excellent. I can't wait for the first incident around Ruggles where someone runs from the SW corridor park, into the station, crosses through Northeastern property, across onto Melena Cass, and then into Whittier and onto Madison Park's campus.
That will be 6 police jurisdictions in less than a good 1,200 feet of running. Have fun perp, one more jurisdiction can shoot you up with military grade weapons.
I have a big problem with campus cops having expanded firepower. We have public (read: PUBLIC) police forces in the area (Boston and Brookline, plus the Staties) who can all quickly respond to incidents who have military grade weapons. We will now have private security forces, who do not have the same training and more importantly street experience as BPD and other forces.
Please, please don't bring up Sean Collier either. That poor guy was shot from behind by what to nearly everyone would think was two MIT students walking around campus. No semi-automatic rifle would have helped there. That is an NRA masturbation fantasy if you think so.
My alma mater famously had a "riot" back in 1998 when someone mouthed off to a campus cop. A multiple town SWAT team was called in in full riot gear to break up the equivalent of a high school kegger. I haven't given them a dime since. Campus cops are not cops. Please remember that as they decide to play cop, and have high capacity weapons.
You do know a pistol is a "military grade" weapon as well right?
This is a rifle, that shoots a .223 cal bullet. It's not a M-60 machine gun.
He wants police to carry
He wants police to carry batons and mace I think. Unarmed law enforcement much like a mall security guard. Kinda like London! Don't worry, mace definitely burns, so any mass shooter would be quickly blinded upon getting mace to the face.
When Did Campus Security Become Police?
I guess you are still wiping yourself and looking for responses in the tissue. Keep watching Chuck Norris movies and holding you teddy bear. You'll make it.
probably when
they got firearms and the right to arrest people
When the officers graduated
When the officers graduated from an accredited police academy and the school went through the process of developing an accredited police department duly authorized as special police officers with the state?
Not security - They Are Police
Speaking from personal knowledge... Campus "police" are just that. They cannot call themselves "police" unless they are so-empowered by the state.
Colleges and Universities may employ a series of police as well as security people with different duties. On most campuses the "police" are armed, whereas "security" are not.
Campus "police" in Massachusetts are trained in the same academy that all other metropolitan police departments are trained at, specifically the one in Quincy often referred-to as the MBTA Academy. This is a misnomer since while the MBTA may facilitate some funding, those cities, towns, and campuses that have officers trained there contribute to the process, so it is more of a metropolitan academy.
So the police from Lexington, Brookline, Quincy, Medford, and Harvard University, Boston College, and UMASS, all receive the same training, empowerment from the state, license, as **academy trained** police officers. They also have to engage in ongoing training throughout the year. And... campus police often have to take specialty training to deal with issues that may be specific to campus life.
Only Boston as a municipal body has its own academy in Hyde Park.
And if any person thinks that campus police are not the same as city or town police, please think different. The campus is much like a microcosm city unto itself with crimes that range from theft to traffic violations, and even felony assaults.
In fact, it is possible for any **acedemy trained** police officer to transfer to other jobs with the same titles, so a police officer from Somerville could transfer to the MBTA or Tufts University Police, or a police officer from Harvard University could be hired by Marlboro Police. While some campus police are not part of the civil service roster, others are.
So with this education, let's get it right.
You forgot to mention: their
You forgot to mention: their hiring on as campus police has nothing to do with "low scores" as mentioned earlier. It's typically an issue of residency, or, not being a military veteran. Neither being a character or intellectual deficiency.
John, they have a lot of pros and cons....
But if you eliminated the BU or NU police, the BPD would see a sharp influx in larceny, burglary, malicious damage, property damage, assaults, and other crimes that BU and NU handle pretty well.
I Know
Pete: you are a sane cop unlike the retired badge holder Old Man and The Sea who commented below. .
I'm not saying eliminate the college cops at all. They are the safety enablers for the campi of the city.
I just don't see why they should have an increase in fire power to deal with burglaries, campus drug deals, graffiti, etc.
Let BPD deal with the big stuff. That's why there are police radios.
Ah yes, London
Notorious international hub of gun crime. I can definitely see why you would draw that analogy.
A Spear Is A Military Weapon
I know a pistol is a military grade weapon. However, We are entering an arms race against our own police forces here is the point.
"we"?
I'm not entering an arms race. Our police forces are attempting to even the race vs. criminals. It's not just terrorists that carry rifles...bank robbers, homegrown mass shooters, gang members also have access to these weapons. It makes sense to allow trained members of law enforcement (even campus police, transit police, etc) to have access to the same weapons.
In my best Glenn Ordway - You Are Making My Point
We already have cops with massive weaponry (BPD, Brookline, Newton, Cambridge, State Police, FBI, DHS, MBTA Police). As seen with the response to Watertown, there are a lot of guns, copters, drones already given to well qualified people who are responsible to the public.
Why give it to more forces who do not have the same jurisdictional or operational action set who are only responsible to a Board of Trustees but operate on public streets?
The response in Watertown
The response in Watertown showed us the dangers of gung ho heavily armed police. It was a massive shootout, included friendly fire incidents, and lots of self-deployed cops who showed up guns a blazing to be part of the action. It was a shitshow.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boston-bombing-report-criticizes-cha...
It was pure luck that more
It was pure luck that more cops weren't injured that night. Watching the events unfold on CNN last week in San Bernadino, they had a retired upper rank cop commenting (ya, I know) but he made a point of the ground control command needs to reign in the amount of officers on the ground at the time and they need to be better coordinated. I took that as maybe they learned a lesson from the Watertown gunfight.
I hope so anyways.
NUPD has a lot of retired BPD
NUPD has a lot of retired BPD officers.
AR15s aren't military grade either. They are sporting rifles that the air force and later army modified to be military grade.
Your wrong
An AR-15 is a semi-automatic version of the military M-16. It was originally designed and manufactured for the US military.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
Cops
Too Late! If Sean Collier had a larger weapon in his car at the time he was killed there would have been a chance the Tsarnaev brothers would have gotten ahold of it. And that would be preferable?
If the police can't stop a criminal with a hand gun the outcome isn't going to better by giving the cops a larger weapon.
sean colliers gun was never taken
it was locked in the holster. larger caliber weapons would be similarly secured.
Oh Yeah
If only there was a recent story about military weapons being stolen from a really secure place such as an Armory....
There was no alarm due to on
There was no alarm due to on-going construction, very secure
Please don't bring up Sean Collier, says man who brought him up
Please don't suggest that the police hiring list is based on exam score. I'm guessing you took the exam many times and are not a police officer. With preference for minorities, women, foreign-language speakers, veterans, disabled veterans, children of officers injured/killed in the line of duty, a campus police officer may have scored 100% on the exam but been placed far down on the eligibilty list. We just saw an MBTA Transit Police list where preference was given to someone with "Haitian culture." Still, they must conform to the rigors and standards of a state-certified police academy. Not easy. In fact, many are trained by the State Police and most campus Police Chiefs are former MSP brass. If you insist on mentioning Officer Sean Collier while lecturing others not to, remember that the Islamic terrorists couldn't get his gun because it was properly secured in his Level 3 holster. Despite the fawning praise of the Boston Globe and WGBH, the brilliant, Cambridge educated Tsarnaev brothers couldn't overcome his training and experience. God Bless Officer Collier and all of our police, campus and off-campus. Glad to see Northeastern taking this proactive stance. As the saying goes, "when seconds count, the police are minutes away."
as far as i recall
the terrorists shot that dude while he was in his car before his training or experience did anything for the guy
that "dude" was a police officer
he was shot in the head 3 times, never gave up his weapon or at least those two assholes were too stupid to figure out how to take it from him. the poor guy was sitting in a cruiser, at night, and they snuck up behind him and shot him repeatedly in the head. you really are scum.
rarely
have i seen somebody sputter so angrily because they read the truth.
and yes, you may call me scum. it says it right in my name.
Re: as far as i recall
Also recall that the goal of the Islamic terrorists was to get Officer Collier's gun and ammunition. They failed because he had it properly secured per his training. In death, he saved many lives because they couldn't figure out his holster. For the thousands of non-campus police who mourned his death, I don't think any of us considered him a low-scorer on the exam. In fact, I never thought of it that way until the absurd earlier comment.
for what its worth
i think those clamoring about the guns being stolen out of a police cruiser are pretty much going on about nothing. it ignores the fact that the NU PD already has the guns in their armory and that the guns would only be issued to the cruisers in the event of an 'active shooter' situation.
i would have to say that there are probably easier ways to get an ar-15 than robbing a police armory or cruiser.
yep
He was ambushed by two cowards. Your point?
Are You Crying While Typing Fish?
Just want to make sure you are ok. I'm glad to see you let your blatant blanket sexism, anti-intellectualism, and racism shine through while rebutting. It puts a great spin on things.
Re: blanket sexism, anti-intellectualism, and racism
If you're able to find any sexism and racism in my comment, you should be in the Detective Bureau. Those are state hiring preferences, not mine. "The soft bigotry of low expectations" as President Bush correctly called it. As for anti-intellectualism, I believe it was you who suggested campus police wind up in that occupation because they scored poorly on the police exam, when in fact, a candidate may score 100% on the exam every time and never be considered.
what he was trying to say, i think
was that you come across as an asshole
that is how i interpreted anyway but i'm not his spokesperson
weapons stolen from an armory
are also easily taken from a cruiser
anyone know BU/Northeastern police level of training?
I've been on college campus environments where the campus police had an order of magnitude better training than the municipal police. The cliche example is a university that puts it's campus police through the local State Police Academy while the municipal PD ends up hiring any schmuck off the street with a "law enforcement" certificate from a community college.
In those settings the campus police were objectively better trained, better experience and better equipped than the local force. I interacted with them quite a bit due to some EMS/EMT type background experiences.
So depending on BU training and stance this may not be more risky than BPD already carrying higher level of firepower. All boils down to how well they train their people and where they recruit them from
Training
Just because someone is responsible doesn't mean they should be given more responsibility.
i recommend people read
the peter principle
I assure you we are safe with
I assure you we are safe with cops having guns, sir...
hoo boy
I guess it depends on who you mean by "we."
Oh, don't be so coy.
Oh, don't be so coy. You know who he means. "We." Us. White guys. We'll be fine. Not sure what you're so worried about.
BU and NU police are very well trained.
Especially in the area of active shooter scenarios, which I know every campus officer does more than your average BPD street officer. Now the BPD special ops teams are second to none. Those are the guys you want for a serious incident over the BU or NU pds.
I'm not worried, and I don't think the BPD administration is too worried. These cops would be using their regular handguns in any scenario where they would use the rifles if they didn't have them. The rifles are much more accurate and may make people safer.
Where's the need?
Given the university police these weapons is a solution without a problem. Where are the real (not imaginary) threats that these weapons will solve which traditional weapons will not? Can we be assured these weapons will never fall into the wrong hands or misused?
I'm sure these cops are well trained and responsible. What's unclear is if the added risk of adding additional weapons to the street will actually reduce a threat or resolve one more quickly. Unless there is an overwhelming need then the resources should be devoted to threats more likely to occur.
In case someone walks around with armor shooting people.
Then they can take out the threat sooner than later.
I really don't care either way about the gun issue, but I really don't think this is a big deal. The odds are small that an active shooter with body armor will be walking around campus shooting people is very small, but why not prepare the best you can?
My Answer
There is an opportunity cost here. If the chances of the weapons being stolen or misused is greater then the chances of that type of shooter then the weapons are not a good purchase. As you say, the officers will need to go to training of these weapons -- that's classroom hours they could be training to deal with more common problems.
The weapons being stolen or misused is also low.
These are worst case scenario materials that you really can't plug into any opportunity cost chart.
Does this make sense in an urban environment?
I take your point, it might make sense on a campus that is physically very large, in an isolated location and/or located in/near a town with a small population and police department. But in a city, where the footprint of the campus is relatively small and surrounded by cities with large PDs? I'm not sure the argument that the campus cops have to deal with an active shooter all on their own really holds water.
This is just a way for
This is just a way for Northeastern to increase their campus security job applications. And it will, violent kids will be jonesing to get a semi AND get paid to flaunt it (and not be held accountable when they kill unarmed people with it).
what?
I really wanted to watch and not comment on this, but this got a little nuts.
In what crazy world do you live where you think NUPD just hires random kids and gives them guns? NUPD officers are police officers, and require full certifications to become police officers. Take a look at the employment requirements: http://www.northeastern.edu/nupd/about/employee-opportunities/ . As an aside, a large portion of the NUPD police force carries tasers instead of handguns, I think they are doing a pretty decent job of not just going full on police militia on campus.
Didn't bother to inform
the Boston Police.
How about "Didn't need to tell the Boston Police."
Informing BPD
Given that all NU is inside Boston, and they directly share a lot of sidewalk and adjacent space, I sincerely hope that BPD, MSP, MBTA and campus departments do a lot of inter-agency training.
If they don't do this already, then we have much bigger problems here than just who has what type of rifle.
16 hours of training per month?
Aside from the other discussions going on, this makes me pause. 2 full work days PER MONTH of training range time?
On one hand, being well trained with any weapons, from baton to rifle, is very important.
On the other hand, that is a LOT of training for any topic. Assuming they work about 20 days/month, 10% of that time is specifically geared to training on just one weapon?
I would have guessed a couple of days initial training, then maybe a couple hours/month at most, not days/month.
Can anyone familiar with police work let me know how this compares to MSP, or police work in general? How often do most departments qualify with their pistols? How much time beyond that do they spend training?
Curious, thank you.
NB2
16 hours a month for special ops officers.
Which I assume would be those campus officers who would be using the long rifles.
BPD follows the state guidelines (MPTC regulations) for firearm qualifications which is 16 hours a year.
Follow-up for Pete Nice
Thank you Pete Nice. To make sure I'm following, are you saying that regular patrol officers do 16hrs/year for weapons training and qual, but that "Special Ops" officers do 16 hrs/month?
Is Special Operations = SWAT?
Good to have some facts to go along with the rest of the 'discussion'.
NB2
That would be correct.
But not all Special Ops guys are SWAT, but all SWAT guys are Special Ops. Motorcycle guys are Special OPs, as are the bomb guys, etc.
But BPD officers who have rifles (on the SWAT team) train 16 hours a month (I'm not 100% positive but I'm pretty sure)
Thanks
for the info.
I guess this brings me back to my original point.
I'm not sure how large the NUPD is, but to my knowledge, only larger depts usually have SWAT teams. Smaller Depts often have a regional approach. (NEMLEC, if I have the acronym correct)
I'm sure there are lots of reasons for this, but 2 days/month of special weapons training is a lot of time this school's officers are away from campus.
I don't really care about the caliber of weapons they have, and actually think it's smart to have some rifles available quickly if needed. But I'm leery that a small dept can send a large number of officers away to training that often and not feel the impact in other ways.
NUPD at it's finest..
I worked in conjunction with them and the FIRST and foremost thing they NEED to do is focus on community policing. Their chief has so much hubris, he's beginning to seem satirical. If the basis of your argument is CNN, your point is moot. I'm looking at you, Chief. Kids, this is your tuition money at waste!
Anec-data based policy making
Yeah, Watch CNN, because Heaven forfend that you would make policy decisions based on, you know, actual data.
(I'm neither for nor against these police forces having these weapons; I don't know enough. I'm responding specifically to the reasoning that goes, "I'm hearing a lot about X in the media, therefore X is a significant problem that requires my immediate action."
As an NU alumnus, I think
As an NU alumnus, I think that if NUPD wants to play with guns like a big boy police department, they should refer cases of rape, assault, theft, etc by students to the criminal justice system, not the campus discipline system.
lmfao
pigs more likely to fly
because you see, next on the docket list, NU is going to supply campus security with jetpacks
another cincinnati waiting to happen?
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/07/30/prosecutor-calls-u-cincin...
I don't understand the need
Campus police officers in an urban area MIGHT need need to carry a taser or handgun, for personal protection when investigating dorm break-ins and such.
But when you need combat rifles, isn't there time to call in BPD SWAT?
I'd be more concerned about the rifle being at target for theft and tragic misuse. I recall when the Boston Marathon terrorists went and killed a campus police officer just for his gun.
College cops vs High School cops
College cops get semi-automatic rifles while the Boston School Police can't even get pepper spray. Even the mayor concedes that the high schools have major gang problems and school related violence on a daily basis.
yeah
"i definitely am irritated with the lack of firearms in our public schools" - a rational person
So what are they supposed to
So what are they supposed to do? Use their authority voice? There is definitely a gang presence and kids have brought weapons into the schools. You sound like someone who has zero experience with BPS and knows nothing about what the school police have to deal with.
I think I'll agree with the
I think I'll agree with the solution without a problem folks.
Having traveled many years ago to Mexico City, the one thing that struck me was the proliferation of large weapons used by various police, pretty much outside many banks and any store that could afford or not afford not to have one. It gives an appearance of need (danger) which basically caused me to say, no reason to go back there. Once parents and prospective students start seeing this on orientation day, I think the universities will see a decline in applications and start rethinking this policy on their own.
The real rationale
U.S. News just added the Caliber:Cops ratio as part of its new ranking algorithm.
Moving goal posts
First the lefties say that only police should have guns. Then they say that only city police should have guns. Then they say that city police are too militarized.
Here's the deal: any idiot can legally purchase an AR-15 (with modifications to comply w 1998 law) in Massachusetts and parade it around in the trunk of his car, drive it into the city of Boston, etc etc. Is that a good idea? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how well you think the mandatory training, background checks, and waiting period in Mass work.
But trained, badged, cops carrying having these things at their disposal for the moment when God-forbid one of those aforementioned idiots gets it into his head that what he really needs out of life is a chance at the 70 virgins, and *that's* what you're up in arms over?