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So the mayor and the former president walk into a polling place
By adamg on Tue, 03/01/2016 - 2:53pm
And violate state regulations on polling places, which bar electioneering inside a polling place, such as, oh, we don't know, two well known elected officials well known for supporting a particular candidate not just shaking hands outside a polling place but going inside and greeting people and stuff.
First, MassLive reports from West Roxbury's Holy Name School, where candidates and supporters always show up - but usually stay outside:
Clinton walked inside the polling place, escorted by Walsh and West Roxbury Mayor Richie Gormley. He stopped at a bake sale near the entrance and bought a cup of coffee.
When one woman asked for a photo inside the polling place, Clinton said, "As long as we're not violating any election laws," and posed. Clinton waved, saluted and gave thumbs up to voters and volunteers.
Ed note: Gormley is the honorary lord mayor of West Roxbury, not the actual mayor, since West Roxbury's just a neighborhood, not a city.
Adam Reilly points us to elections regulations from the Secretary of State's office:
Within 150 feet of a polling place as defined in 950 CMR 53.03(18)(c), no person shall solicit votes for or against, or otherwise promote or oppose, any person or political party or position on a ballot question, to be voted on at the current election.
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Comments
Since when have the Clintons
Since when have the Clintons been known for NOT breaking the law?
Reportedly, particular polling locations shut down for 3 hours
Now, who had data on how voters at those locations would've likely voted?
The data and inferences are available to well-financed campaigns.
petitions to investigate and arrest clinton
https://www.change.org/p/massachusetts-attorney-general-maura-healey-arr...
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/investigate-violations-massach...
god damned
savages
The fence 10 feet from the
The fence 10 feet from the entrance was covered in Hillary banners. None of the 10 police standing around seemed to care. How do I file a complaint?
here
Toll-Free: 1-800-462-VOTE (8683)
617-727-2828
Fax: 617-742-3238
Email: [email protected]
you don't
this is America, not a country but a marketplace. This election has been bought and paid for a long time ago. Today they are giving us the illusion of choice, just bend over and accept the monarchy.
Or file your complaint. I'm sure it will get filed in the shredder and no action will be taken against anyone's campaign, but it might make you feel better.
Isn't pretend democracy fun?
Yes
I love life and I love America and while I only bleed red I carry white and blue in my heart and soul
Down with those who would poison and sully the name of this great country as well as the glorious commonwealth in which we reside
Huh?
I... what? Who, precisely, has bought it? The orange toupeed canned ham? Or the woman who 80% polling numbers have spent six months plummeting into essentially a coinflip?
Also, you won't find it in Strunk & White, but modern convention when making such contentions is to refer to the nation as "Amerika," or optionally "Amerikka." HTH!
Jeb bought the R nomination
Jeb bought the R nomination obviously. That man is unstoppable!
Good point. I wonder if Jeb
Good point. I wonder if Jeb will win the general election. What do you think?
OMG - Hillary banners
ten feet from the entrance to a polling place. Call out the riot squad.
Better still, get a life.
What a Nasty Comment
The regulations are for a good reason. Sounds to me like the right person has a life.
In the meantime, candidates
and PACS can flood the airwaves with their tripe and that's somehow OK. Seems like we've got our priorities wrong here.
Agreed
Free speech sucks
Stop that.
Insisting that reasonable election laws be upheld is a good thing to do, and you're incorrect (and stupid) for putting people down for doing so here.
It's sad that when pressed, you are now... claiming that everyone who wants the signs to be taken down must not care about Citizens United? No. No, that's not true, and you should know that. Stop making terrible arguments.
heres my opinion!
Citizens United: No Thanks
Why bother having laws if
Why bother having laws if they only apply to little people and non machine/establishment supported candidates.
You honestly believe
that having Hillary signs ten feet before the polling place entrance will somehow convince people to vote for her, but having those same signs 150 feet before the polling place entrance won't?
There are many things that have to be reformed in our political process. Being zealots about where campaign signs are placed outside the polling place - and I agree there should NEVER be signing inside the polling place - or "OMG, the former President entered a polling place." are, IMO, way way way down on my list of important matters to be corrected.
The law exists to avoid
The law exists to avoid intimidating voters.
This is a commonwealth not some third world sham republic where you vote for the ruling party candidate on the 10 foot tall billboard next to the ballot box.
broken window theory
broken window theory
It is about the sanctity of the polling place
My son was wearing a Bernie shirt this morning when he went to vote before class. He was asked to button up his flannel shirt before entering the polling area.
He thought that this was entirely reasonable.
The space within the polling station is supposed to be "noise free" - meaning that nobody sticks signs in your face, there is no argument over who was given the best spot for their candidates sign, there is no concern that someone is watching that you vote for the "right" person, etc. For any number of practical and historical reasons, there are limits on campaigning around polling places, and these limits are clear.
I don't even wear a campaign
I don't even wear a campaign button when I go to vote, and if I did and was subsequently asked to pocket it, that would be just fine.
I'm invariably accosted by someone in the doorway of the polling place shilling for some candidate or other. Today it was people handing out flyers for the upcoming special election to replace Petruccelli. They're easy enough to wave off with a "no thanks, I've made up my mind" but I can see how they might intimidate others, and I always think a little less of candidates who use tactics like this.
If it were just one sign per candidate to remind people of a downticket race or something I doubt anyone would find bother to complain, but using campaign signs like wall paper and accosting every voter right in the doorway is in poor taste at the VERY least. It's like seeing sign-wavers jaywalking or repeatedly mashing crosswalk buttons just to waggle their signs at motorists... oh, I'll recognize that name all right. Recognize it as one I will never, ever vote for.
Actually
It's about ethics in video game journalism
Non sequitur
And irrelevant non-sequiturs.
simply
a reference you didn't get is all
theres nothing wrong with that, not everything i say here is intended for a broad audience, nor do i hold your ignorance against you (:
I understood the reference
It was still a non-sequitur.
lets be honest grandma
you googled the reference
Nope
Teen kids. Hear it all the time. Tired meme is tired.
If it didn't make any difference...
...how come only one candidate was allowed to do it?
Bust out that measuring tape
Because there is no way the fence at Holy Name is 10 feet from the entrance to the polling station. The fence is on the rotary. The entrance to the gym is up the hill and down
Private property
Holy Name is private property. Complain to Msgr Carlson at Holy Name Parish or to the Archdiocese Chancery office.
And in case people wonder why that is a polling place.... it is because there are no other buildings in that neighborhood that meed ADA requirements as required for polling purposes.
No stickers were present.
No stickers were present. Just being known as a supporter of someone does not mean your meer presence is campaigning. The pictures could be a little iffy but even then if he isn't saying vote for Hillary inside the voting location...
Ayup
I actually looked up the state law, and you're right - it just mentions posters and stickers and pamphlets and the like.
However, what Reilly dug up was the Secretary of State's administrative regulations for running polling places and it goes beyond that. Granted, not a legislative act signed into law by a governor, but still a state regulation.
I am familiar with the
I am familiar with the guidelines, to the best of my knowledge it does not say a person may not enter a polling place. Bill Clinton is a person who happens to be married to a person running for President. If he was not actively campaigning how does that go against the administrative guidelines.
The line item on observers does not restrict people from entering the premises, it just guarantees specific access to particular people.
The line he pulled out does not say if you are a known supporter of a candidate you are barred from entering.
Keep in mind I am a Bernie supporter but I do think Bill is being unfairly tainted as it is a very common practice.
How long has this law existed?
Although I haven't seen it as much in the past few years, I remember always having to run a gauntlet of people standing outside polling places handing out literature for various candidates. I didn't realize they weren't supposed to be doing it. I never saw anybody do anything about it.
It's been around for a long time
And theoretically, if you complain to one of the cops inside, he or she will come out and shoo them away.
In Chelsea until rather
In Chelsea until rather recently nobody bothered to mark off the 150ft sections, rather there were Gentlemens agreements about where far away enough until some of the races got very competitive and people began asking for defined boundaries from the City Clerks office (which makes sense.) Although even the agreed upon marks were still a good 75 feet away from the doors. My city is also very aggressive about removing signage from public property.
The law has been around for a long time. I have only been active since the late 90's but the rules was always there. I did notice anytime I campaigned in Boston for other candidates I was taken aback by the "dressing" of the polling places where people just put their signs up all over the place and also by how close people would be to the polls.
In 2003 I was in NH for Kerry where they apparently have (or at least back then) no rules. We all formed a huge mob of people on either side of a thin pathway to the door. I remember asking the election people and the cop "Is this seriously ok? We are right on top of the door" and the response was "as long as there a path it is ok. I found it shocking that people had to go through that to vote.
The mayor was wearing a
The mayor was wearing a Hillary sticker. I believe he only took it off once inside the polls.
Fine both candidates and use
Fine both candidates and use that money for something good.
What's your basis for fining Sanders?
The Clinton campaign clearly violated election law.
Reminds me of an old New Yorker cartoon
Man sitting on an elephant at the entrance to a polling place. Another man arguing with a cop. The caption reads "And I say he IS electioneering."
Law enforcement aid breaking the law
Clinton is guarded by Secret Service, Walsh is guarded by Boston PD. Both men are violating the law with active assistance from both a federal and local law enforcement agency
Mayor gutless
Surprised he showed his
face after his total fold
on BLS. Folks were
seething to have there
kids labelled racists.
?
Is this a poem
slick willie
I did not campaign for that woman!
Win
^^^ win!
West Rox Library Always Has People Campaigning at the Entrance
Except today, but for every general or big local election, there are a lot of people campaigning, holding signs, and even purposely positioning themselves in front of the entrance. It gets really tiresome having to walk through this mess. When I complain, the election people just roll their eyes and say, "Yep, we told 'em to move."
It would be nice to see the police actually enforce the regulations.
The Lydon too..
... usually has people standing out too, but not today. There were signs posted outside by the sidewalk though.
Interestingly, the library had paper with the polling place law printed on them posted on the pillars and doors.
funny or rather not-so-funny story. I drove my neighbor with me to the Lydon so she could vote too. When she gave her name and address, the attendant looked her up and said "Democrat" and the other attendant gave her the Democrat ballot.
"Is this the Republican ballot?" neighbor said.
"No. You're registered as a Democrat."
"But I want to vote in the Republican primary."
"You can only vote in the Democratic primary because you're registered as a Democrat."
Neighbor was about to keep arguing but didn't. When I was filling out my ballot, she came up to me and started saying :
"It's not fair...".
"Neighbor," I said, "You can't talk to me while I'm voting."
"But .."
"No! it's illegal."
We finally finish and in the car she says:"I didn't want to vote for anyone on the Democratic ballot but I had to."
"What?" I said. "No one can make you vote."
"The machine wouldn't take my ballot unless I voted for someone. So I just voted for one of the others". (meaning not one of the presidential candidates)
"What? The attendants wouldn't help you put it in the machine? They told you you had to vote for someone?"
"No one told me. I just assumed I had to vote for someone. I didn't want to ask for help. I was afraid I would look foolish."
One guess who of the Republican Presidential nominees she wanted to vote for.
Yeah, today was the only
Yeah, today was the only election I can remember since I moved to my current polling place (about 7 years) when I wasn't met at the door with hordes of people with signs and fliers. For the mayoral final in 2013, I had to literally shove my way into the school's gate to vote. I know you're supposed to tell the cops inside to make them leave, but they're our neighbors, and some are cops.
this sort of cowardly stuff
is why these laws exist to begin with. too bad about the lack of enforcement
It's not like they are
It's not like they are actually trying to stop people from voting (I don't think), they're just waaaaay too aggressive about their chosen candidates. At the point where you're physically blocking the only entrance to a polling place, you've gone too far. In 2013, the crowd included two BPD detectives I personally knew, a City Council candidate, and a mayoral candidate's mother.
I would lie to see their reaction
If you remind them that they need to be 150 ft away from the entrance. And neighbors or not, I think it's appropriate to shove your way past them, sharp elbows and all.
By the way... We both clearly
By the way... We both clearly had time to kill today and commented on the same stuff. If I ever run into you, the first round is on me.
why
What is Bill still doing here?
You have to ask?
He's using every dirty trick he can think of to get his wife elected. More crony-capitalist gravy train for him. Duh.
that really isnt fair.
most of the dirty tricks he's been involved with weren't named Clinton
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttt
Electioneering
I have literally been accosted with a candidate's pamphlet every single time I have voted in Boston or Brookline. State Senators, City Councilors, and everything else. That is actual electioneering, and happens at every local polling place in my experience (and my friends' experiences according to discussions today).
While it's potentially bad publicity, someone physically entering a polling place is not electioneering unless they perform an action that can be defined as electioneering. How else would politicians or politically active celebrities vote?
But...
Bill obviously isn't registered to vote here. His presence at the polling site wasn't for the bake sale. Taking photos with voters inside the polling site? Ridiculous.
The ADA required passenger
The ADA required passenger drop off point and accessible parking spaces required by federal law appeared to be blocked by the rally affecting elderly and disabled voters. The mayor who thought this was OK needs a reprimand and disabled voters should think about who cares most about their concerns.
rats
If it was old fatty Bill Clinton I could have made a joke that the bake sale should have been outside, but slim Bill only went for a coffee.
Former President Clinton was merely
showing his love for America as a Patriot and as a freedom loving Christian. His presence has irked some fake patriots and anti-American zealots. They covet his Americanism and lack his exceptionalism. How pathetic.
This
But unironically
If he had stayed outside and
If he had stayed outside and made a scene, then fine. He crossed the line because he campaigns for her and he was talking to voters while they were in the polling area. Who cares who you gave your vote to or whether he was a previous president, he shouldn't have been within 150' of the polls.
I was there. I never heard
I was there. I never heard him even say Hilary's name. He was shaking hands with people. A lot of them were saying they were voting for Hilary, and he was just saying "Thank you very much". He was toeing the line but nothing he did was technically illegal.
Sounds like electioneering to me. Isn't that...
Voter fraud? Can't campaign within 150 feet of a polling place.
Fraud? Not really unless he
Fraud? Not really unless he cast a vote or stopped someone from voting.
Against the rules? Certainly possible.
Not the same thing.
The New York Times takes note
Bill Clinton Gets a Little Too Close to Voters in Boston:
New Bedford?
It seems Bill made an appearance in New Bedford as well and in doing so, caused Secret Service, etc. to close off the street in such a way as to prevent people from reaching the polling location...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwa2vSqKPHY
https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/48i8q3/bill_clinton_appearance_...
What is the violation?
I don't think their presence alone is enough to be considered "soliciting votes". They were not talking up Hillary or holding sines. If they were, that would clearly be against the law, but a well-known person walking into a polling place is not enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLPq5gV7kXY
>From the supposed uploader, /u/daphrijal:
It wasn't just this polling station, it was about 3 different ones in New Bedford. His appearances locked down each voting site for a couple of hours each. What happened was that they plopped down their event pretty much right in front of the entrance and then barricaded it off with lots of security. This took place at the Normandin Middle School, Dottin Place and Taber Mills community house. I originally went to cast my vote at Normandin at around 9 am. A Bill Clinton and Jon Mitchell event took place pretty much right in the parking lot. As I approached the school, I was told I had to wait behind the barricade and am not allowed to vote at this time. Security guy told me to come back later. I went back an hour later and the event was still there and people were still not allowed to vote. Friends of mine confirmed that they staged similar events in those other two polling stations. I was busy so I have still not casted my vote and I don't think I will now because it's too much hassle to go out again.
What's his business there?
You get to enter an election place if you have legitimate business there. Bill Clinton does not vote in Massachusetts.
Can somebody explain
Can somebody explain something for me?
I've asked several people this (two questions, actually) over the years and nobody I've asked has ever been sure of the answer.
Looking at the actual polling place experience:
1. How is it that in liberal bastion Massachusetts, where I'm fairly confident that a majority decries votor ID laws in other states as racist, obstructionist, etc... they make it so #%&Q(Q#& difficult to stay on the rolls? I've been in this neighborhood in Boston for years now and I don't think I've ever had trouble. My wife, however... if she misses the primary election for dog-catcher one year, bam - she's off the book for the general election! I thought it was because we are often very spotty on returning our annual city census form in a timely manner (I don't think that's a good reason, but I would grudgingly understand if that was on the books), but when I asked a representative at the Secretary of State's office I was informed that this is NOT the case. The only way absence should result in somebody being dropped is if they miss two presidential elections in a row.
2. As a companion to #1 - What is the deal with uniformed, armed police working the polling place? Working not security, but at the tables where they check your name against the rolls? Again - if this were done in some state where votor ID laws were passed against votor fraud, people would be screaming against intimidation of poor, oppressed minorities, etc...!
Well
It seems like your post is screaming about all the things that you say nobody is screaming about. Thank you.
Now, if you would scream for some ice, we could turn this super Tuesday into a super sundae.
Your beef is with your city/town
Different clerks make different calls about what they do to maintain the rolls. Some use the census, others will take you off if you don't vote in a couple of elections, etc. Ours will let you vote if you've been dropped if you can present a photo ID with your address. My younger son brought his ID since they sometimes ask for ID with first-time voters and recently-moved voters.
My city does not have uniformed police officers handing out ballots, either. Nor does my MIL's, because she's the one handing out ballots.
Last one in the polling place
Last one in the polling place from the family, noticed my wife checked R, think she must not want Trump. I pull a D to make sure Bernie gets in instead of cHillary. I get home and my daughter tells me one of her teachers pulled an R to make sure Trump doesn't get in either. I think they're going to have to start giving us multiple ballots so we can get one in for the one we want and our blocking strategy.
I feel like an idiot
I simply voted for the people I wanted
Uh,
Well, what about 2 for the one you want, 1 for the one you don't want, maybe 3 dealers choice. 1 person, 1 vote. well, kinda.
Evidence?
Is there any evidence that President Clinton or Walsh expressed support for Hillary while inside the polling place? This story provides none. No report of the incident I've heard says they were "electioneering". But right there in the lede - Clinton breaks the law.
The Clinton rules are still in effect. Shame on you, Adam.
He made a bloody damn speech
He didn't just stand there with an angelic look on his face, he made a bloody damn speech in supporting Hillary while standing within the line that marks the limit of electioneering, and beyond which other people who were electioneering were standing. It's a clear violation.
agreed
he should have been arrested, or forcefully removed, but alas, some people just get special treatment.
No person shall promote any political party
As an independent un-enrolled voted it is disturbing to see Bill Clinton and Marty Walsh allowed to promote the Democratic party inside a polling station which is a clear violation of:
"(d) Activities at Polling Place. Within 150 feet of a polling place as defined in 950 CMR 53.03(18)(c), no person shall solicit votes for or against, or otherwise promote or oppose, any person or political party or position on a ballot question, to be voted on at the current election."
Posing for a photograph with a political party's ballot is absolutely promotion of that political party. I've sent an email to the Secretary of the Commonwealth and encourage anyone else who thinks we should maintain absolute neutrality of polling stations to do the same.
An no campaign ever does that
==============
Let's examine that.
Campaigns send their sign holders to polling places all the time and never give them training as to exactly what the law is. They create a gauntlet that makes it hard for people to vote. Eventually someone complains and you, the City Election Worker, has to go out to tell them to move from the door and follow that very law as quoted.
You are then greeted by a Neanderthal that gets in your face tells you to go F_off. Yes... I have experienced that. After that, the police are called and they move everyone back to the 150 ft limit. That lasts all of about 30-60 minutes if that and they eventually gravitate back figuring the police have better things to do, and after all... no one is going to stop them from shoving {shit} in people's faces and making it hard for them to even get inside to vote without being accosted.
I've seen it happen and in nice neighborhoods.
For what its worth, local politicians are the biggest offenders and they should know better. In fact I watched Angela Menino stand right in front of a polling place door the last time Tommy ran. No one could get by her without her saying hello and to vote for Tommy.
So while everyone has their skivvies in a knot about Bill Clinton, they only need to look at their very own state reps, senators, and city councilors for the worst offenders - or at least their campaign workers are. But the candidates need to take responsibility for their actions. They don't.
There should be a mandatory training session given to all of them and stiffer penalties.
Clinton never went inside. He remained outside along with the rest of the campaign workers who congregated there because of all the press coverage. Ch 5 was set up there from the night before even. He did nothing worse that the very people you all voted for - or their appointed reps holding signs, of shoving pamphlets in your face.
If it bothers you that much, make sure that you tell these people to move back 150 feet every time you go to vote. Your next shot will be in September at the state primary and in November at the general election.