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Aw, how cute: Catholic Memorial fans scream at Jews that they killed Jesus
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By adamg on Sat, 03/12/2016 - 12:01pm
The Washington Post (!) reports Catholic Memorial fans really showed that old school spirit at a basketball game in heavily Jewish Newton last night, in a game against Newton North (played at Newton South):
[A]n estimated 100 young men sitting in the student section cheering for Catholic Memorial shouted, “You killed Jesus, you killed Jesus,” according to several witnesses who asked not to be identified. Most of those chanting fans wore red shirts as a display of support for their team. Some of the witnesses, who were Jewish, said they found the chant alarming.
Their outburst came the night after Cardinal O'Malley went to a Newton temple to celebrate the 50th anniversary of a Vatican statement saying Jews were not responsible for killing Jesus.
The Post interviewed one person at the game who was particularly shaken - a native of Skokie, IL, whose parents survived Nazi concentration camps.
ESPN's Brendan Hall, who was at the game, reports:
Credit to the CM administration absolutely scolding its fans. Made every fan apologize to the Newton North principal just now.
— Brendan C. Hall (@BHallESPN) March 12, 2016
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Comments
Joke is on them.
Jesus was JEWISH. I remember reading it in some book a nun made us read back in 1st Grade.
CM - The also ran of the Boston Catholic High Schools.
At the Catholic schools I went to, many years ago
the kids might have made a "you killed Jesus" like this, in a way in which they expected the Jewish person to find it just as funny as they did. And on the same level as the alleged "sausage fest" taunts, also not taken seriously.
And I suspect that many of the Jewish students did find the joke funny.
One thing I realize as an adult, which I did not know in school, is that many Jewish people are brought up with a culture that they need to both identify with historical Jews, and to be vigilant against anti-Semitism in the future. It might be that the Catholic students today don't yet understand this, and so don't realize that the joke might not seem on the same level as "sausage fest" to all the Jewish people within earshot.
I don't know anything about this CM school. But this just sounds like some kids said something that in hindsight was a mistake, as kids make mistakes pretty much non-stop, and they accidentally hit a taboo with what to them was a good-natured retort.
Nope.
Nope.
I went to high school at a public school in Southern California (Bakersfield - if you can't go to the bible belt, let the bible belt come to you!) and the slur of choice, in 1998-2002, was "Jewish." As in, "That's so Jewish." "You're Jewish." HAR-DE-HAR-HAR.
They knew exactly what they were saying. This was a town where the Baptists wouldn't let their daughters date Catholic boys. I had just relocated from a stint overseas in a Muslim country and really did not get it -- you're the same religion, wtf??? But it was a big deal there.
The anti-Semitism was real and only "humorous" because everyone was allowed to assume that absolutely everyone else in town was on the same page, and even if they did get called out for harassing the one Sikh kid in a school of 2500 (I knew of no 'out' Jews or Muslims), the administration would rally behind them. Because kids will be kids, tee-hee! But remain seated for the pledge of allegiance (which had never been mandatory before 9/11) and suddenly you're in big trouble!
After all, they were allowed to use school grounds to pray and harass anyone who tried to walk past the "flag pole" prayers without joining in before school, stick notes to them, sabotage their lockers, surround them in the hallways to make them late to class, and all kinds of disgusting behavior.
Believe me. These kids know EXACTLY what they do. They know. Jesus freakin' wept.
You should never assume, and
You should never assume, and if you weren't there then you really don't know.
Many of those boys had no idea why what they said was so offensive. They were responding to a very crude chant from the Newton North fans.
Both sets of fans acted obnoxiously. Shocking isn't it? Teenagers acting obnoxiously at a sporting event (clutches pearls).
Sorry, but that's bullshit
Complete and utter bullshit. Any Christian who calls a Jew a Christ killer knows damn well what he's saying, whether he's 15 or 35. Trust me, hatred of the Jews goes way back and it's really sad that in 2016, these kids will need an assembly to remind them why it's no longer acceptable to call Jews that. The school might also throw in a reminder that Jews don't really kill Christian babies for Passover, either.
Blind Eye at their own mistakes
But its ok for Newton North students to attend a basketball game at another school earlier in the year, one which has a heavy Hispanic student body, and chant "build a wall". Jewish people are the quickest to condemn and cry wolf, but say 'who me', when they commit a wrong. And that is why so many people have a problem with Jewish people in general.
Which opponent?
I'm calling bullshit.
You're referencing a Catholic high school that chanted that at another heavily Hispanic Catholic high school in Indiana.
http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-government/ci_29577758/build-wall-hi...
What "heavy Hispanic student body" did Newton North play earlier this year? I'll even help you out by linking to their schedule.
So many people have a problem with Jewish people in general?
I think you mean you have a problem, Billy.
Reply to anon
Anon,
I have no doubt you mean well, and may even be right about the kids from Catholic Memorial not understanding the implication of what they were chanting (which is a claim responsible for the murder of millions of Jews), but I can absolutely guarantee as a Jewish parent and former Jewish kid that the Jewish kids at the game did NOT find this amusing.
This is why teachers need to teach
First; please, find me a Jew who would find that joke funny. You might have had cohorts who grinned and didn't complain, but trust me. They didn't find it funny. Because it isn't. Under any circumstances.
Second, the reason we have teachers to to guide kids. Yes, kids, and particular teenagers, to dumb things. It's a part of growing up. Pushing boundaries, and discovering what pushes back. But the adults around them are responsible for deflecting the worst possible outcomes. They are not always successful, but the have to at least try.
And there need to be consequences when such experimentation goes awry, otherwise no one ever actually learns. This wasn't a harmless taunt; this is a slander which has existed for millennia and has been used as an excuse for mass murder. The kids should have known better. The adults around them should have known better. Both need to deal with the consequences.
It might be obvious to you
but it's not obvious to someone who wasn't brought up since early childhood with that one sensitivity grilled into them.
We can educate and we can ask for sensitivity from people. But we have to be careful throwing around the ominous-sounding "the consequences", and deciding what insensitivity is and isn't worthy of "the consequences".
"that one sensitivity"
It doesn't have to be "grilled into" anyone; it's common knowledge in the larger culture. "that one sensitivity" relates to a millenia-old canard that was used, still within living memory, to enable Christians to shrug and turn their heads (when they weren't enthusiastically joining in) as Jews by the millions are slaughtered. Please don't pretend that this is some kind of obscure or uncommon knowledge, on the order of a non-vegan not understanding why many vegans don't eat sugar.
I'm aware of the Holocaust, and
much of the long history of marginalization, persecution, diaspora, etc.
And a very sweet friend of mine in Florida was viciously and physically bullied (almost permanently maimed) *in college, around 2000*, by a fellow college student, specifically for being Jewish. While two student administrators of the university housing stood by and did not intervene.
That said, I honestly did not realize that this retort by the students was apparently so hurtful.
I've learned that now, and you can be sure that I won't be making that kind of joke (though i never have).
My reason for speaking up now, with a new sense of humility, is to suggest that it's possible that the students involved had no idea that this was actually hurtful. When were they told that this 'joke' (which might sound to them like a ridiculous statement, that they can't imagine taking seriously) is actually hurtful? They know some of the history from school, but have they been taught about the connection that many Jews feel, and that persecution still happens sometimes today?
Rather than imagine evil of the students, perhaps this is an overdue teaching moment.
Yes, it's possible
It's possible that CM teachers have so far failed do do their duty in teaching morality, history, and Catholic doctrine to their charges.
It's excellent that they now have an opportunity to remedy their lapses, and it appears they will be taking it.
I hope that the administration of CM chooses to follow the lead of the Archdiocese of Boston and implement the curriculum the Archdiocese developed jointly with the ADL twenty years ago. If students are ignorant enough to repeat the Jewish deicide slur, which has been contrary to Catholic doctrine for generations now, there's no telling what else they might mistakenly believe.
The Catholic Church repudiated the "Jews as Christkillers"
indoctrination over 50 years ago, and a lot of people still buy into that indoctrination even after the fact, which is rather sad. Here's hoping that the faculty at C. M. High School is living up to their promises to correct the situation and to make sure that this kind of stuff that happened at the game doesn't happen again.
I dunno...
If someone is a Christian, receiving an explicitly Christian education, all around the idea that Jesus Christ was all that, do you really think that they wouldn't view "You killed Jesus" as a nasty, hateful thing to say? Even if you were profoundly and inexcusably ignorant of history, including the history of your own religion?
I don't know about these CM students
but I don't recall ANY fellow students from parochial school taking the religious doctrine too seriously. If I'd ever heard one of them say "Jews killed Jesus" , I think I would've assumed they were making a joke irreverent of old Christian doctrine. Not knowing it was actually offensive to Jewish people.
This was in one of the places where today most all teens love, say, John Stewart.
I understand the situation different in other parts of the country, and perhaps in pockets even in the local area.
Ah yes
That vaunted "Catholic School Discipline" on display.
I wonder if there will be anything actually done about this at Catholic Memorial when the videos start to surface?
I guess forcing students to
I guess forcing students to apologize to the school principal immediately after is not enough? What do you have in mind for these young deviants?
Don't mess with her narrative
She already has an anti-Catholic school bias. The chant confirms the bias. The immediate reaction of the CM administration to the chant runs counter to her bias, so it must be discounted.
stop by here occasionally
the next time Swirly admits she's not a higher life form will be the first time.Don't waste your breath.
You can make your point without being a bigot.
Of course, you know that. The irony of your post in response to the chant in question is delicious.
Ah, yes
It is "bigoted" to point out, when I've been told repeatedly that I shouldn't have kids in public schools because "Catholic schools teach superior values" that, in reality, they don't?
This isn't "anti-Catholic" - it is something called "reality-based criticism of hypocrisy".
It is a phony meme that some Catholic school parents simply love to push in the faces of public school parents at just about any opportunity. The "your kid isn't going to be moral but mine will learn VALUES because I spend money for their school". Raise a kid in a heavily Catholic area - you'll get it in your face eventually, too.
BTW - MY HUSBAND TAUGHT AT A CATHOLIC SCHOOL FOR TWO YEARS. They were very fond of repeating this while they were overlooking all sorts of bullying and inappropriate behavior. My sons had kids appear in their classes in 4th, 5th, 6th grade when their parents removed them from Catholic schools because of this sort of thing.
Pigeons meet roost.
Here you go....
Here you go....
Dear Catholic Memorial School Parents and Families,
Following a series of meetings over the weekend, Catholic Memorial School has begun to take steps, both immediate and long-term, to ensure that the incident involving Anti-Semitic chanting Friday night becomes an opportunity to better educate our students about intolerance.
On Saturday, Catholic Memorial reached out to the Anti-Defamation League to both apologize and to seek assistance with identifying additional resources for educating our students about Anti-Semitism. I will also continue conversations with Newton North High School Principal Mark Aronson.
We will also strengthen and enhance our curriculum to better educate our students on the subjects of intolerance and bigotry. Student behavior and leadership responsibilities will be included as part of a revised curriculum. These next steps will be made with a great deal of deliberation, thought and input from the Jewish community and the Archdiocese of Boston.
Immediate next steps for CM will include a series of assemblies Monday morning. Administrators will meet with faculty first, and then students by grade to address the incident Friday night. We will hold an optional open forum Monday after school for all students to voice their concerns and ask questions.
Catholic Memorial is committed to using this incident as a teaching opportunity and to help students understand the hurt they have caused to Newton North High School and the broader Jewish community.
There are no excuses for the actions of the student-spectators who took part in the chanting, their behavior was appalling. Their actions and words do not align with the teachings or the value system of our school or the Catholic Church.
We thank you, our parents, for your support and commitment to ensuring that our students and the entire CM community learns from this event.
President Peter F. Folan
What the hell?
Yes, my high school generally looked down on CM, but come on, boys, you are better that this.
And yes, Swirls, the odds are that these kids will get disciplined for this. At Catholic schools, you get disciplined for a lot less than this, and this is BIG.
Actually,
they are NOT better than this. Proof: They did this.
Wonder if any of the kids were at this event?
Cardinal O'Malley at Catholic Memorial on March 1:
Look up the phrase
'taking the piss', or the more American phrase 'yanking your (their) chain'...very common at sporting events. We Americans are rank amateurs in this regard compared to the Brits, Euros, and others.
Not a good comparison
Keep in mind the Europeans were shooting at each other only seventy-something years ago. I'll take the American habit of politely holding our tongue, thank you. Live and let live, that sort of thing.
Haha you're totally right!
Europeans are way better at this than we are.
Even in European football
Even in European football there are topics that you don't bring up. Just a few days ago at Man United/Liverpool, there were reports of Hillsborough chants that drew criticism from a ton of people. A lot of clubs have taken steps in recent years to punish racist chants and behavior.
I guarantee if at the next NLD Arsenal fans start chanting YOU KILLED JESUS there'd be backlash.
Not likely.
There's not too much backlash against chelsea and west ham fans for sieg heiling and making hissing noises that sound like gas chambers. I'm sure the gooner scum wouldn't exactly get lifetime bans.
Yes, we're amateurs at this
Which is why many Brits and Europeans are at first shocked, and then delighted, to find out that sporting events in America are, generally, wholesome public entertainment to which one wouldn't hesitate to bring children, pretty much unthinkable in some other countries.
Beyond unacceptable
Catholic Memorial should be allowed one day to voluntarily withdraw from the playoffs, then should be banned if they don't.
They need to expel a bunch of kids too, apparently.
No Collective Punishment
Withdraw from playoffs? If the players were in on this, then yes. If it was only students in the stands, then no.
I am the father of a three sport HS athlete. You practice everyday after school. You travel sometimes up to 60 miles a game, you build a relationship with your teammates. I watch my son come home from practice and then spend 4 hours on homework. He gets grades and goals.
You shouldn't let morons in the stands dictate the outcome of your hard work and discipline.
With your logic every single white kid should be tossed out of Latin. Dial it down a bit.
In this case, yes
These kids didn't come up with this idea in a vacuum. They didn't wake up that morning suddenly being Anti-Semitic. This is a private school, and it's clearly teaching them something horrible. I understand that the school may have released a statement, but I can't find it on their website or social media, so so far I'm not seeing a lot of responsibility-taking on their part.
If the team had stopped the game the moment the chanted started and demanded that their supporters stop or leave, they would have some credibility. If it is reported that this happened, I can be moved. Unless this happened, then yes, the team also bears some responsibility.
This is the
most recent tweet from CM's Twitter page. Speaks volumes.
https://twitter.com/CatholicMem/status/708469068295184384
Take a breath.
And then another one.
And that's what happened
Chant was during warmups, and was stopped immediately. All kids in that section were made to apologize personally to the principal after the game. The idea that CM is "clearly teaching these kids something horrible" is ridiculous. (And I'm a NNHS parent.)
Why just apologize to the principal?
The principal was not the only target of the offense. Why not send 'em out onto the court at halftime, give 'em the mike, let them speak their apology to the opposing team and its fans? That would be a meaningful apology.
Agree with this
However, there does need to be some larger action from the administration that is aimed at all students and their parents. Not punishment, but education about why this was so wrong, why it reflects badly on the school (as if national and international press are not enough), what parents can do at home, and what the consequences will be if it happens again.
And that's exactly what's
And that's exactly what's happening at the school. have to say, CM is dealing with their problem much better than BLS is dealing with theirs.
Here's the most recent communication from the CM principal.
Dear Catholic Memorial School Parents and Families,
Following a series of meetings over the weekend, Catholic Memorial School has begun to take steps, both immediate and long-term, to ensure that the incident involving Anti-Semitic chanting Friday night becomes an opportunity to better educate our students about intolerance.
On Saturday, Catholic Memorial reached out to the Anti-Defamation League to both apologize and to seek assistance with identifying additional resources for educating our students about Anti-Semitism. I will also continue conversations with Newton North High School Principal Mark Aronson.
We will also strengthen and enhance our curriculum to better educate our students on the subjects of intolerance and bigotry. Student behavior and leadership responsibilities will be included as part of a revised curriculum. These next steps will be made with a great deal of deliberation, thought and input from the Jewish community and the Archdiocese of Boston.
Immediate next steps for CM will include a series of assemblies Monday morning. Administrators will meet with faculty first, and then students by grade to address the incident Friday night. We will hold an optional open forum Monday after school for all students to voice their concerns and ask questions.
Catholic Memorial is committed to using this incident as a teaching opportunity and to help students understand the hurt they have caused to Newton North High School and the broader Jewish community.
There are no excuses for the actions of the student-spectators who took part in the chanting, their behavior was appalling. Their actions and words do not align with the teachings or the value system of our school or the Catholic Church.
We thank you, our parents, for your support and commitment to ensuring that our students and the entire CM community learns from this event.
President Peter F. Folan
And the others with the
And the others with the sausage chant? There is an implication with chant besides a sandwich at Mickey D's.
''According to one tweet from a witness, Newton North fans chanted “sausage fest, sausage fest,” prompting the response from Catholic Memorial fans.''-http://www.wcvb.com/news/fans-of-catholic-memorial-chanted-you-killed-je...
$197.5 Million Well Spent
I hope there is an interdisciplinary auditorium that would make Google blush where everyone can communicate with the CM Principal and send their apologies as well.
Apologies for...
Making fun of the fact they go to an all-boys' school?
I mean, that's got to hurt a little bit, but really.
Maybe I spent too much time covering high tech ...
But "sausagefest" wasn't really as anti-gay as chanting about killing Jesus was anti-semitic - more of wailing at the lack of women, as in "this party's too much of a sausagefest, let's get out of here."
But, yes, one might assume teenagers would be a lot less subtle, in which case one could fall back on the old two-wrongs argument - are CM kids that quick to resort to the mud when they feel they're under verbal attack? It doesn't really make them look all that much better, and the fact that the first thing out of their mouths is the sort of anti-Semitic crap my mother had to put up with decades and decades ago doesn't inspire much hope for the Youth of Today, at least, as represented by the kids at Catholic Memorial.
Christ Killer is Horrible
I am a very lapsed but still very cultural Catholic. The comments on the demise of Crux yesterday bordered on some very inflammatory anti-Catholic statements. That is somehow ok on this board, but other things aren't;.
Teenagers were being teenagers last night as we know that teenagers are the dumbest sociopaths out there outside of two year olds. Anti-Semitism is wrong, Anti-Homosexual chants are wrong, and Anti-Catholic statements are wrong. May we keep these thoughts going forward?
So John
Do you think going to an all-boy's school makes it harder for kids to understand gender issues?
Here's the rub though, John:
The term "Christ-killers" is really horrible, and it depicts a horrific chapter in history, as well, which is why it shouldn't be used...at all.
The notion that "teenagers were being teenagers last night.", as far as I'm concerned, doesn't even begin to hold water. It's unacceptable...and inexcusable. By the time a person reachers his or her teens, s/he really should be able to get a feel for what's really offensive and not say things like that again, in the future.
So if it were just the
So if it were just the sausage chant , no story. You can deflect the meaning to something not offensive.But because it is from privileged Catholic boys, you make a headline out of it and neglect to mention the other chant, or the fact that that's what started the whole thing.You have biases consistently with stories that you would not do if you swapped out the subjects.
"Deflect" the meaning? Is
"Deflect" the meaning? Is there some meaning of "sausage fest" that I'm not aware of? Because I have never heard it in anything other than a straight male context: that of being disappointed that there are not enough women at a party to satisfy the male attendees, which is gross on its own level but not even remotely homophobic or homo-anything.
One is "haha, you don't get to hang out with girls as much as you would like to" -- and that is the only meaning it has ever had. Seriously. Somebody explain to me what other meaning there could be. I'm a woman in tech, my degree is in computer science, I feel like I would have encountered alternate definitions before now.
The other has been used to justify the murder of millions of people at a time.
Cut out the false equivalency, it's beneath contempt.
Listen up
She's a woman in tech. She knows from sausage fest.
Dear anon , you have a degree
Dear anon @ Sat, 03/12/2016 - 10:34pm , you have a degree in computer science yet you can't make a screen name for this site? Your perceptions as a woman are different from mine , not a woman. Beyond the sausage , and even though you are degree'd up , you may have missed a few things in your higher education encounter. Dont start with your high tech false equivalency rhetoric. There is a double standard being held here, that was the point of the post. Maybe minimize would have been a more better word to use than deflect.
Dear kvn
Holding apples to one standard, and oranges to another, is not what is commonly meant by a double standard.
What? Instead of answering
What? Instead of answering her question, you attack her lack of a screen name? Shows the weakness of your argument.
This is an example of how
This is an example of how humans should take life lessons from dogs. Dogs are the better species. So embarrassing.
You people would piss your pants
At a European soccer match.
Oh, in that case
Because football fans in Europe act like a bunch of animals, it's okay for high school kids here to do the same. You're absolutely right. Heck, we should make sure there is a fatal riot at the next game!
Here, have a participation trophy.
You're a winner too!
Isn't there a Trump rally you should be going to?
You sound like one of those whiners who loves to bellyache about how you're not "allowed to" make racist, sexist, homophobic, antisemitic comments any more, and how real red-blooded Americans can "take it". You probably believe that athletic competitions are enhanced by this bullshit, and that everybody who disagrees should just grow a thicker skin. Pardon me if I don't weep when people call you what you are when you indulge in asinine antisocial behavior for your own amusement. Go pick up your sad trombone and blow that horn.
Updated original post
With a tweet from the ESPN reporter who was at the game about how a CM official made every single CM fan apologize to the Newton principal.
Thanks Adam
I would love to say that it is kids being kids, but it is not, and thankfully the administration at CM is making sure the students know that what they did was wrong, wrong, wrong.
A good start
I hope they follow up with these kids AND their parents. Apples, trees, etc.
See you in Nonantum later today?
You can lecture all the NN parents as well for their brats and their behavior too, or will that not fit the narrative?
Again
You need to be more familiar with the meanings of things. "Christ killer" is not the same as "all male event/place".
Then again, you probably want to go back to the government, all social institutions, etc. being "sausage fests", too. Just like the Good Old Boys Club days!
Sausage Fest has a broader implication
The Tiger fans were alluding to that CM must be full of homosexuals owing to the lack of fairer sex there. You (should) know that or is your selective sensitivity meter going off?
Don't try to change the narrative that somehow I support single sex institutions because I question the acts of two sides in this idiot fest.
Really?
That's nice dear.
You would know that this is not true if you lived somewhere other than in a boys club bubble.
Now. Riddle me this: When did "OMG THEY STARTED IT" ever have fuck all to do with a justification for such hateful speech?
Looks like we have a prime example of the kind of CM parent who creates such a special child, right here! It's okay to threaten extermination THEY STARTED IT. You poor dear- you are being harassed - consequences are just so UNFAIR!
Works at a Trump rally I guess.
Boys Club? Trump Rally?
I voted for the socialist Jewish guy. Whatever. You keep going with your prejudices and keep thinking you are the moral one above everyone. Reading your posts is like reading the National Enquirer; It is mostly crazy rants but every once is a while there is a grain of truth in there.
Come on John (and everyone else)
Yes, the Tiger fans were using a well worn means of mocking students from all boys high schools, with the implication that they do not like girls. Going straight to Christ Killer was not proportionate. There was a reason, but there is no excuse.
Of course, someday chants impugning men's hetero-cred will be out of bounds, but I am guessing not yet.
For the last few months,
For the last few months, since spotlight came out, the chant typically goes "Father Nolan's sausage fest", referencing one of the pedophile priests at Boston College High. The NN kids shortened to sausage fest but there's no way they didn't know exactly what they were saying.
Really?
Ive never heard "sausage fest" used regarding homosexuals. Just a place with too many men, as in at a party or bar.
To me, its stretching things to connect that chant to sexuality.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
No gay man would complain about a party being a sausage-fest. This "slur" is only ever used in the context of straight guys being unable to attract women to their events.
It would be a spectacularly stupid attempt at an insult anyway, because if the guys were actually gay they'd just be high-fiving and saying "hell yeah it's a sausage fest!" instead of being all bummed out that women want nothing to do with them.
It's more of an alpha/beta male thing, which is still revolting, but definitely does not have anything to do with sexuality.
According to the WaPo article
One of the spectators reported on social media that Newton North kids were chanting "Sausage fest!" at CM (a reference to the fact that CM is boys only). The "You killed Jesus!" chant was reprehensible, but if this account is accurate there wasn't a lot of good judgment on the Newton North side, either.
Alluded gay slur isn't as bad?
Where did you buy your offensive statement color coded chart? I want to get a look at one.
Your legs must be very strong
…to leap to such a conclusion, i.e., that I didn't think the Newton North chant was somehow less noxious than that of CM. So just to make it plain: Both sets of fans were very much at fault.
What in the world are you talking about?
I've never heard of that term being used as an anti-gay slur. It's usually used in the context of large groups of brodudes.
If by "usually" you mean
If by "usually" you mean "always."
As mentioned in other comments, I'm a programmer in tech, and I'm a woman. I've attended my share of sausage fests. NOWHERE is it implied that they are such for lack of interest in having women attend -- only for lack of interested women.
It's a slur against icky nerds without sex appeal -- it has nothing whatsoever to do with gay men. In fact it erases gay men by implying that a sausage fest is a negative quality, no matter who is in attendance.
Sausage Fest
That isn't a gay slur.
It has to do with "all male".
If you think that "all male" means "gay", well, that's your problem ... and your own hangup.
Then again, people being exterminated en mass for "killing Jesus" is recent history. People murdered en mass for all male clubs? Not so much.
Maybe he's saying
He has a different perspective on school traditions?
Trump and his
brand of white tribalism has made this sort of behavior OK again. Time to nip it in the bud.
No
Time to nip all the easily offended crybabies in the bud. This PC bullcrap has gone way too far - next thing you know, anything you say will be considered doublespeak and you will end up being a dirty racist. As long as you're white, of course.
Because opposing genocide is
Because opposing genocide is way too P.C. for some people.
-- Spoken as a white male
You know what's funny?
You know what's really funny? A brave free-speech warrior like you, so bold and willing to go to the mat to protect the right of antisocial racist assholes to throw slurs at people (whom you call "easily offended crybabies" because they've got a problem with someone saying "You killed Jesus"...yeah, skin just don't get much thinner than that, does it?)...but who doesn't apparently have the courage to write the word "bullshit" in an anonymous post. Hilarious!
If you are going to report
If you are going to report something, report the entire story. The CM fans were out of line. However what of the homophobic and pedophilia related chants the Newton North fans hurled in the other direction first? The CM administration has already, correctly, addressed the situation and made the offending fans apologize. Newton should step up and do the same.
Absolutely
You're right, anon 12:59, 2 wrongs DO make a right. Anti-Semitism is totally OK in certain contexts. Seriously? Is that your argument?
[Note: I am being sarcastic. This incident was anti-Semitic. Anti-Semitism is wrong. Supporting anti-Semitism is also wrong. Quit it!]
Religion is a choice
Right, mocking someone for choosing to attend a school which is associated with a disgraced branch of the Catholic Church is just the same as, um, being born to a specific set of parents. Or living in a town where a lot of Jewish people live. Because that's a problem for people I guess?
IDK, pedophilia jokes aren't OK at a high school game but you're dealing in false equivalences here.
Good on the principal for getting right on this, but the damage is done. This is already on the Guardian and other int'l papers.
#makewestroxburygreatagain
Not that it matters.....
but the game was played at Newton South I believe.
The Post originally reported Newton South
Then changed it to Newton North, probably after looking at the tweets from the ESPN reporter who was actually at the game (and, in fact, the schedule shows NN playing CM last night).
South Sectional finals have always been at a neutral site.
http://miaa.statebrackets.com/game.cfm?tid=3891&tclass=&subid=4398&gamen...
The photo is also of Newton South I believe
Yep
It was Newton North playing CM at Newton South.
After the apology, the
After the apology, the offending students should be forced to translate Aetate Nostra from Latin.
no problem
No problem for my CM kid who is excelling in Honors Latin. bring it on....
When will Carmen Ortiz...
begin the investigation?
More details in Globe account
Including statements by CM president and Newton school superintendent.
It's important to note
The Catholic Memorial staff handled the situation impeccably. They immediately shut down the kids, and at the end of the game had them individually shake hands with the Newton principal and apologize. And they released a statement that this was unacceptable behavior.
Quite a change from my pre-Vatican II childhood, when the local priest had no problem with his students shouting "Christ killer" at Jewish kids.
Why is there not outrage over
Why is there not outrage over the "sausage fest" chant? Considering it is an all boy school I take that as being anti gay. We all know that is what they meant by chanting that.
You take it wrong
It's not anti-gay - it's a standard jokey term for an event where there are way more men than women.
It's touching that someone defending a Catholic school is worried about homophobia though.
Noo....
No, we do not know that is what they meant by chanting that. In fact, almost nobody here thinks that's what they meant by chanting that.
Most people - even most high school students - do not think there's anything particularly gay about an all-boys' school. We imagine the boys are mostly keeping their weenies to themselves, nor do we wish to know if they aren't.
We just think it must be a drag, because girls are kinda cool.
"Sausage fest" is nothing more than a picturesque way of saying "no girls!" I believe that many teenage boys value their social interaction with girls highly. Being sent to a school with no girls would seem like cruel and unusual punishment to them. So it is hardly unusual they might tease other boys being so punished.
Some people seem oddly touchy about the matter of not having girls. But maybe not having girls does that to you.
What I can't figure out
Even if it did mean "gay", why would that be an insult? Why would that make it an "anti-gay" chant?
Some people just have their issues with their own homosexuality/homophobia, I guess.
CM gets "taunted" sometimes....
because of the priests/staff who worked there that took an interest in young boys. In the showers/locker rooms/changing areas.
Many of my friends and friends older brothers went there in the 1970s and 1980s and told me about a man who used to do just that (some guy who gave out towels outside the showers or something like that)
Without getting into the topic of whether or not a man who has an interest in young boys is gay, I think there have been those who have "made fun" of CM kids because of this issue. "hey did Father X touch you?" "Hey did Father Y give you a towel before or after he touched you", etc, etc.
Long story short, those who want to throw "slurs" at Catholic School kids would use the above "gay" slurs in order to make that point. I don't think the Newton crowd had any intent of that of course, but you asked how gay slurs would be used as anti gay slurs.
(disclaimer, this isn't an easy thought to convey in words so I am sorry if it came out as choppy or insensitive)
edit: And like others as said, when you throw out the term "sausage fest", it means like when you go to a party as a heterosexual male looking for female companionship, but there are 10 guys at the party to every attractive female. That would be a sausage fest and not a fun party.
CM - Newton North
Swirly, of course it is an anti-gay slur. You are insane or delusional if you think otherwise. If you walked up to a typical 16 year old boy and asked, “Are you are gay?” they would take it as an insult and a personal affront. “Sausage Fest” was calling-out the boys at CM, challenging their manhood and making insinuations about their sexuality. The CM students’ responses were immature, out of proportion and totally inappropriate (but hey, we are talking about 15-18 year old boys). What I find interesting here are the responses of the two schools. CM’s administration called the kids out for their behavior and make them publically apologize. I suspect not a single parent at CM will complain about that. Contrast that to the reaction of the Newton schools, calling the ADL but not condemning their student's inappropriate behavior. I know that Newton schools work hard to foster a positive environment for LGBT students, so I won’t make any comments about the principal condoning or excusing that sort of conduct from his students. These are both good – actually great – schools. The whole incident is a shame. But don’t condemn CM without applying the same level of scrutiny to North.
That's your problem
As noted, "sausage fest" has nothing to do with being gay anyway.
Also? You must hang around with some pretty backward and knuckledragging 16 year olds who weren't raised right, and are surrounded by insecure grown men. I don't need your lectures about "boys being boys blah blah teens blah". That's bullshit excuses for lazy adults. I have kids that age. They are not like those you describe, neither are their friends, and that sort of behavior is NOT tolerated at their public school.
In fact, the Gay Straight Alliance is the biggest and most popular social club at my son's high school and has been for years. Young people don't act like that about "gayness" unless they have been raised by homophobic parents or homophobic crap has been ignored (or even promoted as a "value") by lousy schools.
How do you know what your
How do you know what your kids or their friends are like when you're not around? I'm sure if the parents of any of the boys from either school were sitting with them, neither of the chants would have started. That sort of behavior is not tolerated in parochial schools either. In this case, evidenced by the fact that CM's administration immediately took action. Teenagers do stupid things sometimes. A few students doing or saying something dumb is no reason vilify an entire school. Yet that seems to be happening a lot lately.
Bubbles
But seriously, you're out of step with reality here. As noted by many people, you are imagining something that doesn't exist. There is no anti-gay slur here. Just in your mind. That's paranoia.
All-boy schools exist so that boys won't be "distracted" by having girls around. It's an anti-sex thing. If what you imagine is that as soon as the doors close the boys all start going gay for each other, that's a thought that's peculiar to you. Not shared by the rest of us. It's your personal vivid imagination of others' behavior, fueled by a preoccupation with sex on your part.
Trying to excuse a centuries-old ethnoreligious slur on the part of a group of CM students by making up a new meaning for "sausage fest" is opportunism that demonstrates your true beliefs. It doesn't tell anybody here much about the world but a lot about you.
This is a black eye for CM. It's an indictment of their teaching. The ethnoreligious slur of Jewish deicide was repudiated by the Catholic Church in the sixties. If boys are learning it there, or not being taught better, then they aren't being taught to be good Catholics, let alone good people.
CATHOLIC MEMORIAL
Not at all surprised by students of the Christian Brothers acting this way. The Christian Brothers have enough to bow there heads in shame (sexual abuse) be nice to see what the President ( cannot understand why the Principal of High School is called president.) does beyond the tepid apology. Could we have names of these wonderful Christian gentlemen ? Little public shaming would be appropriate
They'll find some sort of discipline for them...
They'll probably just move them around from one Catholic high school to another..
Important fact missing from report
who won the game?
Catholic Memorial.
Catholic Memorial.
And then they went home
And had the wurst party.
Irony
CM is a sports powerhouse, I'm surprised they didn't crucify them.
joke alert, extra credit for guessing who 'them' could be.
Buncha brats
It could take three days to get over that.
Jesus, I never sausage an
Jesus, I never sausage an uproar!
I'm just trying to figure out
I'm just trying to figure out what the hell the coach was doing while all of this was going down. "Hey, my students are out here acting a damn fool...can't see any problems coming from this."
Same with the referees for that matter. I'd have T'd them all up, coach included for not checking his players.
This had nothing to do with
This had nothing to do with any players. It was the student sections in the stands.
Except
The players weren't involved.
It was the student fan section.
I hope that cleared things up for you.
Thank you for the respectful tone!
Referees are perfectly able to discipline coaches and players for the behavior of fans in the stands, if not eject said fans.
If I were a player on that team, I'd be yelling at my friends to shut the hell up. I wouldn't have faulted the Newton North coach for taking his kids off the court in that case, either.
They could have assessed a technical
Except that the game hadn't begun yet.
The Tiger coach, or the administration from North, could have taken their team back to the locker room until... well, the chant was stopped (I was going to write quickly, but since it shouldn't have started in the first place, I defer).
Honestly, if we are editing the past, we're I a ref or other official, I would have ejected every kid in red from that side of the gym. Let the Knights play without their classmates, since they let the school down.
It was an MIAA tournament event.
At these events the MIAA has their own staff, but mostly relies on school administrators to handle crowds. This is not new.
Also, these are big events with packed gyms. Players and coaches are usually in a bubble and have "tunnel vision" and usually don't even notice the crowds.
Here's a little twist
It's been over 4 years since I attended an MIAA tournament event (I'm a big hockey fan, so the Super 8 and championship Sunday were big for me at one point) so things might have changed and could be different for basketball, but I remember that there were at one point probation officers assigned to police the student sections, in addition to teachers. I would guess that these parties got involved in ending the chant and would know who were involved in the chanting.
Suffice to say, for the next few years CM players and fans will be subject to the chant of "you are Nazis." Or at least they should be.
I've worked at them on different levels.
The MIAA will have staff and an on site director, usually an AD from another school for a sectional final like this. Then the MIAA will require the participating schools to have a certain amount of staff (usually an AD and some assistant principals) there to monitor their crowds, along with MIAA officials. If the MIAA officials see conduct or prohibited actions by fans, they will alert school staff to identify and remove those particular students. For group chants, it can be hard and I can only imagine hard to single out who started or participated these chants.
F these people
As a parent of a newton middle schooler, who's been exposed to anti-semitic graffiti several times over the past few months, I am completely disgusted that things like this are happening, not just in our community, but all across the country. It seems as if the current political climate in the US has brought all the closet racists, bigots, and anti-semites out in droves, flaunting their hatred and insecurities for all to see, because it seems intolerance is the cool thing to show these days.
I don't care if these were "kids", the fact is they should know better, and if they don't, then fuck the people who've raised them to be such horrible emissaries of depraved thinking. (i'm not just pointing the fingers at their parents, but the members of the systems they've grown up in as well. coughcatholicmemorialcough)
Keep exposing yourselves for who you really are so we know who to avoid and who to really show intolerance against.
You're all a bunch of dicks.
Where do kids get this kind
Where do kids get this kind of thinking? Take a look in the mirror. Hate much? Again, blaming an entire school, an entire community, for the actions of a few. Isn't this kind of thinking the whole rationale behind racism, religious intolerance, sectarianism, etc.? We need to start looking at individuals and the actions of individuals and stop lumping everyone together. If I were to do what you are now doing, I would say that all Newton middle schoolers, their parents and their school are hateful, angry people. But I know better. It's just YOU.
Sorry, my high horse trotting
Sorry, my high horse trotting, PC friend, but i flat out hate racism, anti-semitism, and religious intolerance and I'm not afraid to admit it.
I completely disagree that we need to look at individuals. What we need is systemic changes in our society and institutions that make it clear that this type of behavior is not only reprehensible, but completely unacceptable.
Where do you think these kids get the idea that it's ok to say things like they did?
They didn't get it from one person as you suggest, they're products of the systems and environments they've grown up in.
Glad to hear you hate racism,
Glad to hear you hate racism, anti-semitism, and religious intolerance. I hate it too and am also not afraid to admit it. But if you look at a group as a whole and label it according to what a few individuals within that group have done, you are contributing to all those things you claim to hate. You're basically saying it's ok to say all Irish are drunks, all Muslims are terrorists, all republicans are like Trump, all democrats are tree huggers, etc. etc. because some people in those groups do act in a certain way. How is that ok? Thankfully, there are changes being made in our society and institutions so that it is no longer considered acceptable to make fun of a group based on same certain characteristics. The changes in societal attitudes from when I was a kid until now is great and will further improve. Hopefully, we all continue to evolve.
Statement by the Archdiocese
Incident involving Catholic Memorial High School.
Context is important
You have to keep context in mind here, people. The reason those kids from Catholic Memorial were chanting "You killed Jesus" is because being fucked by priests when you're young really screws your sense of morality up.
Really?
That's the direction you are going? Cracking about pedophilia?
Thanks for lowering the bar even more.
Maybe he is making the point that anti-jewish jokes can be funny
?
But...
The "You Killed Jesus" chant was not funny! Not one bit!!
Lowering?
Some would say all I did was make sure the bar was level.
Oh, really?!?
If one really looks at history, the "Jews as Christkillerst" indoctrination (although repudiated by the Church several decades ago.), dates back at least two thousand years, as does anti-Semitism, generally.
But but but...
Matthew 12:14
http://biblehub.com/matthew/12-14.htm
Truth hurts.
P.S. Another unnamed all boys catholic school playing against Cambridge Rindge and Latin in the playoffs decades ago chanted 'you can't read' while Patrick Ewing destroyed them on the basketball court.
Was that racist?
By the way, those boys were severely disciplined.
It was a collective punishment
5 years later, when I was a freshman, the administration was still lecturing us about it. And I will name the school, BC High.
Catholic Memorial students can't go to game tonight
Catholic Memorial students ordered away from tonight's game at the Garden.