The Rainbow Times reports on the chilly reception Gov. Baker got at an LGBT networking event at the Copley Marriott last night when he wouldn't come right out and support a bill banning discrimination against transgender people in public places.
CommonWealth, meanwhile, assures us: Pssst: Baker won’t veto a transgender rights bill.
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Comments
Ugh
By Michael
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 8:40am
Yes, because the input of (a) people whose lives will be affected by this bill and (b) Herald commenters are of equal value
Herald commenters?
By Boston_res
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:23am
I thought he was going to ask GE.
What about
By Lunchbox
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:30am
The business community having to face frivolous lawsuits over supposed violations of this new law? Every time a discrimination law gets passed, plaintiff's lawyers pop a cork.
O_o
By tape
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:07am
O_o
That's definitely who we need to worry about
By erik g
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:31am
Businesses. Not the people who are systematically discriminated against, and to whom the governor just extended a cordial middle finger, but the businesses who are going to face frivolous lawsuits. Think of the tiny hikes to their liability insurance rates! Oh, the sheer mindboggling horror! Won't someone think of the poor corporations?
(If your first reaction to hearing about an antidiscrimination law is "well now I might get sued for just doing my NORMAL, EVERY DAY things!" let me suggest that you are probably the intended target of the bill)
Consider yourself lucky if
By anon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 2:04pm
Consider yourself lucky if you have never had to deal with a lousy student, employee, or coworker who was a member of a protected class, knew it, and took advantage of it.
I've encountered more of that than actual discrimination. Just this morning my wife was pulling her hair about about a minority student in her class that deserves a failing grade, but she can't give one without sabotaging her own career.
YOU'VE encountered more?
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 2:22pm
Given that you yourself are evidently not in a protected class, it doesn't surprise me one little bit that you haven't encountered much "actual discrimination" - or recognized it when you did. It isn't directed at you, therefore it isn't happening (or maybe just isn't "actual").
Charlie Faker strikes again
By anon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:14am
This is what happens when you elect a Republican, even a fake "moderate" Republican. Yeah I know Martha Coakley was a poor campaigner, and thought it was beneath her to shake hands at Fenway Park. Meanwhile Baker ran those ads with his happy family smiling on a sunny day. "Vote for me because my family says I'm a nice guy" said the Faker.
But on matters of policy, she would have been far superior to Faker.
Chuck you Farley.
Actually looking at the bill?
By Bernie in Rome
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:43am
He should automatically support it sight unseen, because that response caters to a protected class, and keeps you in tight with the PC gestapo.
I don't miss Deval, let's not ask Baker to start acting like the previous governor.
Baker had a choice...
By mediaseth
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 8:49am
...represent the citizens of the commonwealth or appease his party on a national level. One can not do both.
women oppose it
By EM Painter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:55am
Dirty secret is that women oppose the bill.
Dirty secret is
By trickycrayon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:10am
You don't know anything.
source: I know many women
If you are Rosa Parks
By EM Painter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:18am
Go into the whole foods ladies room w your wanger out and take it to the supreme court. Otherwise you're just another internet tough guy.
Do You Openly Display Yours In Mens Rooms?
By Elmer
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:43am
Excuse me while I whip this out
By EM Painter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:38am
There are absolutely men who wave it around in men's rooms to get their jollies
Just Because You Do That, It Doesn't Make It Acceptable
By Elmer
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:06pm
well that's rather odd...
By John-W
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 6:19pm
45 years of going to Mens Rooms and I've never seen that thank god.
There are many freaks in the world and some of them do find their way to public restrooms. The weirdness they do there that I have witnessed has mainly revolved around drugs, yelling at no one particular and urinary aim issues. Quite happily I've never been put into the position of being able to confirm their actual gender due to visual confirmation (yay!).
Of the transgender people that I have met, I don't think any of them are the kind to do that in a public restroom. They mainly seem interested in getting rid of waste and getting the hell out of the skanky public restroom. I really don;t understand why this is so difficult, but having the longest running Republican Speaker of the House revealed to have been trying out for the pastor position at Our Lady of Perpetual Buggery is no big whoop.
PLOT TWIST
By trickycrayon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:58am
I'm assigned female.
I AM an internet tough guy, though, for sure.
!
By EM Painter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:30pm
.
*Citation Needed
By mseskin
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:35am
*Citation Needed
see below
By EM Painter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:03am
I love how theres 30 comments here and nobody addressing the reality. It's women freaking out about this so it does not compute.
Again, citation needed
By KellyJMF
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:34am
All I hear is men freaking out and saying it's on the behalf of women. News flash--the women's rooms all have stalls. Nobody is showing anyone anything. There are already trans-gendered people using stalls in both men's and women's restrooms. You would never notice them because they fit right in with everyone else using that restroom. Do you your business and get out and stop judging everyone else.
Can we call you
By EM Painter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:43am
It's not the transgender you dope it's the regular pervs who are going to use this to get at women. Can wecall you when some 12 yo girl gets raped by a guy doing his business in the bathroom?
That perv won't ALREADY go into the bathroom?
By trickycrayon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:03pm
Really?
True
By CCD
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:07pm
But this makes it a hell of a lot easier! 'Hmm today, I'm feel like being a woman, I mean why not!'
are you a real person
By trickycrayon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:10pm
.
It's no easier
By Michael
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:16pm
That sign that says "Ladies" or "Senoritas" or "Hers" isn't like an impenetrable force field
Not how the law works
By peter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:23pm
The definition of Gender Identity already on the books prevents you or other trolls from declaring a gender identity just to be a jerk. Look up the definition of Gender Identity in the Mass General Laws if you're actually concerned, and not just trolling.
Actually.
By trickycrayon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:03pm
Plenty of sexual assault survivors don't support bans of trans people from bathrooms. YOWZA!!!
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/03/28/a-sexual-a...
"women freaking out"
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:29pm
I've yet to see a woman freaking out about this. I see YOU freaking out about this. Are you a woman? Are you plural? No to either? Then stop talking about what "women" are doing. Your bigotry-induced hallucinations are not reality.
I'm a woman and I am NOT
By anon
Fri, 04/15/2016 - 9:20am
I'm a woman and I am NOT freaking out about this. I have ZERO issues with transgendered human beings using the same bathroom that I am in. I have so much more to worry about. like having to look in the stalls for a rapey cis male before I go pee.
when you say "women oppose the bill"...
By bandit
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:04pm
you seem to imply that all, or most, women oppose this bill.
curious where you are getting that fact from?
because i am a CIS woman who supports folks peeing in whatever bathroom they want. and i have lots of other women friends and family who feel the same way.
urination and defecation are natural acts that need to be performed by the human body. bigotry against transgender people is a choice, and shows an unnatural obsession with what body parts one is packing below the belt. unless i am invited to look at them or touch them, frankly it's not my business.
Women vs Trans
By EM Painter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:24pm
Some women simply don't want men in the women's bathroom with them because it makes them uncomfortable.
I don't know how many but I'm pretty sure this is the stumbling block. I think it's an interesting problem because it's a clash of "biology is a social construct" ideologies.
On the one hand you have hyper-consciousness of women's sexual safety. On the other you have a basically unlimited movement for choice in sexual identity. Both can't win.
So, People Born Genetically As Female, But Transition To Male...
By Elmer
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:37pm
… and therefore, outwardly appear to be men — you want to force them to use the ladies room?!!
How would you actually go about enforcing such a law?
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg2FBx_eXkk[/youtube]
So
By ElizaLeila
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:21pm
That right there is a feeling. An opinion. Not fact.
You don't speak for me.
How are you stopping the "pervs" that go into the women's room today? Answer: you're not. This bill won't change that in the least.
i was raped in a public bathroom.
By bandit
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:43pm
so it bothers me a little when people try to pass off bigoted anti-LBGTQ bathroom bills as if it would have made any difference at all. i have never been afraid of a transgendered individual. statistically they have more to fear from me than i do from them.
i couldn't tell you if i was raped in a men's room or a woman's room. it actually doesn't even matter. i wasn't raped because i was in a bathroom. i was raped there because it was convenient for the offender, and because he was compelled to commit a sexual crime against me.
i sympathize with folks who say they are uncomfortable, i really do. and i sympathize with anybody who is afraid. but the reality is that we cannot always and should not always legislate for people's comfort. we must legislate for what is right, and what keeps people safe. and the reality is that a transgender individual is at more risk for using a restroom that does not coincide with their outward expression of gender identify than using one that might, or might not, coincide with their hidden and private genitalia
Sames sexes do rape one another.
By Boston_res
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 2:01pm
For evidence, just look at prisons as a start.
well there you go
By John-W
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 6:30pm
To prevent any and all possible assaults or dicey conduct all bathrooms should become oners.
You never know when someone, ANYONE is going to get all rapey on you when you're pinching a loaf.
Transwomen are women.
By ladycommentariat
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 3:39pm
Just like transmen are men.
Also: I've not heard of any cases of women being attacked by transwomen in bathrooms. However transwomen HAVE been attacked when using the men's room. It's a very real safety issue for transgender people.
And for another data point, I'm a CIS-woman and I wholeheartedly support transgender people being able to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with.
You know the answer to that
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:30pm
From his fevered imagination, where else?
Good
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 8:52am
He got a small taste of what's coming to him. More to come if he continues to choose his bigoted party's platform over human rights in the Commonwealth that he's supposed to be serving.
(seriously, Massachusetts, you elect a Republican, what do you think is gonna happen? Stupid stupid stupid)
Seriously, you have Martha Coakley as a candidate,
By jmeltzer
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:01am
what did you think was gonna happen, Democratic Party?
"Same as it ever was"
My thoughts exactly!
By Boston_res
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:47am
There were other candidates who were much better to face Baker. I liked Juliette Kayyem. I didn't agree with some of what she said, but thought she would have done a much better job against Baker. When the dems started trying to push her out and talk up Coakley, I knew it was over.
Good point, but...
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:39am
...I'm not a Democrat, and I didn't vote for Baker OR Coakley.
She Was A Flawed Candidate, Mindlessly Crowned By Her Party
By Elmer
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:45pm
[sup] ( just like they've done with Mrs. Clinton )[/sup]
Human rights?
By CCD
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:47am
You mean human rights, like the right to privacy? How do you discern a genuine transgender from some creep who is posing as one? Its already happened...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wa-man-wo...
So disingenuous
By Kaz
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:17pm
First, he wasn't "posing" as a transgendered individual. He was intentionally flaunting the fact that he was a non-transgender individual but choosing to go into the women's room because he ignorantly supposed the new state law in WA allowed him access (it doesn't).
The state Human Rights Commission in Washington put out a statement detailing exactly what he did was wrong and that if he had filed a complaint on the business for throwing him out of the women's room because he truly believed himself to be transgender, then the subsequent investigation would have either revealed him to be a liar or the business to have made a mistake which the commission would use as a learning tool, not a punitive action unless the action of the business was the egregious one. ( http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/02/29/3754688/w... )
Therein lies the problem
By CCD
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:16pm
How do you prevent people from abusing this "bathroom bill?" Second, pervs/creeps/whatever you wanna call them WILL pose as transgender to exploit these laws.
So are we going to solve these issues of "ignorance" or pure disregard for the law after the fact? After someone gets filmed or harassed while in supposedly a private space, at which that points its too late? Damage done? You're being incredibly naive if you don't think this will happen. Use some common sense here.
Nothing to Exploit
By peter
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:27pm
If you look up the definition of Gender Identity in the Mass General Laws, you will find it already has a clause stating that claiming an identity for improper purposes is already accounted for. If it's currently illegal for pervs to do their thing, it will *still* be illegal for them afterwards.
Simple!
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:41pm
It's really pretty simple. Most people just simply aren't the kind of dillweeds of the type that you are imagining, and in fact of the type that you seem to be yourself. Most people do not have any interest in using a bathroom in order to sexually prey upon others. Those who do are called (among other things) antisocial, and they are neither restrained by laws stating "you are only allowed to use the bathroom corresponding to the gender on your birth certificate, regardless of your current identity, appearance and/or plumbing", nor are they encouraged by laws stating that people may use the bathroom of the gender that they identify with. Don't you get it? Are you really so stupid that you believe that if a man is a sexual predator who wants to prey on women and girls, he'll say to himself, "Oh man, I'd love to go into that bathroom and prey on some women and girls, but gosh there's a law against me going into that bathroom so I won't do that"?
Don't you understand that if
By Miss Modular
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:33pm
Don't you understand that if trans men are forced to use the women's room, it means dudes who look like regular dudes are now supposed to be going into the women's room? How does that work for you? Is that supposed to make women feel more safe? Now, if a cisgendered dude intent on something nefarious wants to enter a women's room, it's actually easier for him to do so, since TRANS MEN LOOK LIKE MEN, AND THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. The cognitive dissonance is boggling.
Sorry, Charlie
By jmeltzer
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 8:59am
The days of the "moderate republican" have been over for decades.
That is, unless you want to start a movement to kick the bigots out of your party and once again make it one that's just wrong, not raving loony. I'm all for that ...
Republicans
By BikerGeek
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:20am
don't really have much to do with the US branch of the Monster Raving Loony Party, I'm sure. "You know it makes sense!"
He's trying, somewhat
By BostonDog
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:28am
Charlie Baker makes me furious in his actions with the T and in refusing to fully buck the party line when it comes to equal rights. But he's still markably better then most national republicans and even some local democrats.
That said, the reason why the GOP is in such sorry shape is that the [GOP Primary] voters have rejected anyone even slightly moderate (like Baker) in favor of foaming-at-the-mouth wingnuts opposed to everything and everyone who isn't a white rich male.
If you want the Republican party to return to normal people like Baker need to continue being elected into office.
Too little, too late
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:42am
And then maybe in thirty or forty or fifty years, some crumbs will drop from the table, and we'll have human rights in the Commonwealth? Sorry, but we're getting a great demonstration this year (from the Democratic Party) about what happens when you listen to politicians who tell you "Yes, but later, but next year, but tomorrow." Tomorrow never comes. The gradualist approach has been thoroughly discredited by those who have abused the public's trust. It has no credibility any more.
Mass Republicans: A template for the nation
By Gary C
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:44am
I have to say that the Commonwealth has a pretty good record of electing sensible Republicans. Weld was great until he got bored. Mitt was decent until his eyes started wandering from Massachusetts. Charlie has made crossing the aisle look cool.
Baker can't stick his head in the sand and pretend that, even though he's a Republican, he has no connection to the national party. Going out and engaging the wacko segment and showing them that there is a more sensible way does not make him a traitor to us back here in MA.
or rather
By Steeve
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 9:55am
Or rather the state causes them to run middle-right while the rest of the country is at the far right (and pulling the goalposts with them).
Indeed
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:42pm
Saying "He's pretty reasonable, for a Republican" is damning with faint praise, wouldn't you say?
Well...
By JP Resident
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:20am
I'm not a Republican and I generally support anything that adds to individual freedom, but there are serious concerns one can have about this bill without being a "Wingnut." In fact, I would suggest it is the advocates that belong in that box.
What test does one have to pass to "change their gender identity"? Is it a fluid thing? Can I legally wake up one day identifying as a man and the next as a woman? Do I need a note form a doctor saying I'm identifying as a woman today? Do I need to register as such with a governmental agency? Or does everyone just have to take my word for it moment to moment?
Women should have strong reservations regarding this bill. How many articles do we see on UHub of males performing sexual acts on themsemves on the T? Seems like at least 1-2 per week. This bill will allow those degenerates to claim they are identifying as women today and stroll into the womens locker room at your local gym and hang out naked. The gym will be sued if they take any action so long as the "woman" does not commit a criminal act such as touching another woman or publicly stroking themself. The "woman" will simply have to go into the shower or toilet stall to do perform their sexual act on themself. How many of you will be happy to bring your pre-teen or young daughter with you to the gym?
Seems to me it's pretty reasonable for Baker to at least wait to read the bill before he commits to support it. Only a wingnut would do otherwise.
Hey now
By erik g
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:35am
If we're going to have a Concern Trolling Olympics, we'd damn well better start it with a proper torch lighting.
I suggest using yourself as fuel for the great Olympic flame.
typical
By CCD
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:17am
You cant argue against common sense, so the next easiest thing is to name call, disparage and demagogue. Right out of the Alinksy playbook!.
Typical
By boo_urns
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 2:34pm
Great claims require great evidence. And that that can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
In short,
In a thread where we talk about the humans rights of disparaged people, poor you.
apples and oranges
By Michael
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:54am
Anyone who goes into any restroom and performs a criminal act will be liable for arrest just as they are now - just as a cisman would be today if he somehow got around the impenetrable "Ladies Room" sign on the door and did his criminal acts in there. This has nothing to do with the vast vast vast majority of trans people, who, like everyone else in the world, largely want to get in and out of a public restroom as fast as humanly possible.
You know there's an extremely
By anon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 12:02pm
You know there's an extremely well documented and fairly stringent set of hoops to jump through to change your gender identity, right? Including yes, doctors note, publicly identifying and presenting as that gender for a certain amount of time, publicly changing your name (and announcing it in the paper! So everyone can know you used to be a man!), etc. The problem with a lot of you so called reasonable skeptics is you're bringing up questions that just show how little research you've actually done and how little knowledge you have, and it looks like concern trolling and deliberate obtuseness.
I really don't want to scare you...
By lbb
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 1:45pm
I really don't want to scare you, but in women's bathrooms and changing rooms today...
..there are lesbians. Yes, yes there are.
I'm terribly sorry about those pearls all over the floor. Next time don't clutch so hard.
Lesbians! Lesbians! Degenerates! Degenerates! EEEEEEK!!!!!
A modest proposal -let them wear diapers
By anon
Fri, 04/15/2016 - 10:33am
I propose a law where all lesbians are banned from women's rooms because some of them may sexually assault other women. Also all gay men should be banned from men's rooms for the same reason.
Additionally all straight people should be banned from all restrooms because they may have a temporary gay episode that includes sexual assault, as sometimes happens with straight people.
And of course all bisexuals should be banned from all restrooms for obvious reasons.
All of these banned groups can simply wear diapers and the problems will be solved. In addition it will create jobs for the diaper industry.
I am sure the good people of law enforcement and the justice system can sort all this out.
Just common sense isn't it?
Rude
By Marvin
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:02am
It doesn't help the LBGT cause that they boo people that disagree with their opinion.
No, YOU'RE rude (and ignorant)
By Chuck
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:27am
Direct action and expressions of sheer outrage by the LGBT community over their continued oppression by the establishment is the only way to achieve the ultimate goals of equality, dignity and respect. A polite golf clap in response to the political leadership's pandering to national right wing extremists by maliciously slapping you in the face seems unlikely to effect positive change for the community.
What you're saying is those uppity queers should know their place. Next thing you know, the coloreds will want to share the same lunch counter.
Gross, Baker.
By trickycrayon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:03am
How is "please make it harder for people to be assholes to and/or physically harm me" something you need to "talk to all parties involved" about? Hello? WE JUST WANT TO PEE.
Also, shut up, Caleb Stewart.
By trickycrayon
Thu, 04/14/2016 - 10:06am
He was expecting to do what, pander more to trans panic types? Also, did Caleb maybe forget that the bill this jackoff is opposing is literally about making it illegal to discriminate against trans people in public? It's not fuckin' controversial- or at least, it shouldn't be. So for those of us to whom it applies, or those of us who care about people to whom it applies, yeah, we're going to get pretty emotional about it. Anger is a legitimate response to oppression.
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