West Roxbury against the world: Somebody paying to advertise alleged threat to neighborhood from bicycle conspiracy

By adamg on Tue, 10/15/2019 - 10:29pm

Part of a mailer that alleges the Bicycle Lobby is out to destroy West Roxbury

People in West Roxbury - and Roslindale - who get those blue ValPak envelopes filled with coupons this week got at least one "coupon" that advertises an alleged conspiracy by the "bicycle lobby" and people from outside the neighborhood to destroy West Roxbury by forcing bike lanes onto Centre Street, and down the throats of the good citizens of that leafy neighborhood.

The "coupons" do not indicate who paid for them and do not mention that the city ignored calls to do something about pedestrian problems along the windy four-lane road until a West Roxbury resident walking in a Centre Street crosswalk died after being hit by a motorist who said she was blinded by the sun - at the same intersection where another West Roxbury resident suffered a traumatic brain injury three years earlier when he was hit by a motorist who sped by another driver who had stopped to let him walk across the street.

After an emotional meeting at the West Roxbury Elks Club following Marilyn Wentworth's death, city planners began looking at a proposal to essentially narrow Centre Street to three lanes - one travel lane in each direction and a turning lane in the middle, with pedestrian islands at several intersections.

The proposal would allow for dedicated bike lanes - the street does not currently have any. At a raucous meeting at Holy Name School, some people who do not live in West Roxbury, including the owner of a Jamaica Plain bicycle shop, supported the plan. However, the bulk of bicyclists - or parents of bicyclists - who rose to support the idea gave West Roxbury addresses, and discussed how they tried to avoid Centre Street because it is so dangerous.

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Comments

This is hysterical

By Bill B
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 10:50am

Thanks for the laugh. (1) except for morning / evening rush when there’s congestion, drivers race from light to light. There’s no congestion or slow moving traffic most of the day. I walk Centre Street most days. (2) very few people keep it to 25. I do and have tailgaters and honkers behind me all the time. You pretty much have to be ready to get into it with people if you drive 25. And “most traffic stops for pedestrians” is gold. Have you ever crossed on foot? I do every day and typically 2-5 cars pass before someone stops. Then you deal with drivers going around the car that stopped.
To get cars to stop you need to assert yourself and show them your walking in front of them. Which as a large person that’s able to move quickly I can do. But I always see older folks or kids standing two steps into the crosswalk watching a stream of cars go by. Even when drovers notice people they often don’t want to slow down.
A slower design will actually slow speed and get people on foot the attention to cross safely.

Walk down to the Traffic Light

By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:24pm

Press the button and wait for the signal to cross. There is certainly enough Traffic lihgts on Centre street. 9 or 10 forget the Pedestrian crossing,

So now pedestrians and or

By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:07pm

So now pedestrians and or bikers are not allowed to use the crosswalks with no signals? Can you admit that you like to be contrary just to be contrary?

Okay, Whyaduck

By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:21am

Present evidence that rebuts or at least nuances the data supplied in the references that Spin presented, as well as by the people redesigning the traffic control scheme in the area.

In other words, your vitriolic talking points gibberish isn't a convincing counter argument - its all just emotional tautology. Argue the actual issues with data, facts, and research, please.

How many people have died or injured on Centre street

By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:26pm

Is it much more than any other area of the city. I think not. Just outside Bike groups
Go ride in the Arbs, Jamaica Pond or even better Local Cemeteries. Plenty of room. No need to commute to work on a bike, you get into work all sweaty, body odor?? What's the point.
Run to work and take a shower. Better exercise.

how many ?

By Bobp
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:44pm

Too many...
BTW i have counted since May, i personally have seen a car not stop for a pedestrian in the crosswalk 7 times. Almost always the pedestrian needs to stop or go back. This is not including the right turn on red jerk turning from corey to Centre who weaved through pedestrians a few weeks ago

Wow 7 Times in 5 months

By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:27pm

That might be me. I wonder how many Bikes have gone right through the lights probaly 700 times.

Happens to me every time I

By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:11pm

Happens to me every time I walk Centre to do my errands, walk my dog, go get a coffee, go to eat. So that many times a week. I am just one person and I am not the only one it happens to...do the math.

I feel badly for you...you seem so angry about everything.

Not a bad idea but

By fungwah
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:50pm

Go ride in the Arbs, Jamaica Pond or even better Local Cemeteries

Great places to ride - now, how do you propose someone who lives in West Roxbury gets to Jamaica Pond or the Arboretum via bicycle if they're not supposed to ride anywhere else?

are you kidding?!?

By cat
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:59pm

by car of course. just like the folks that drive to Millennium Park to walk - because our sidewalks and streets are not safe for pedestrians.

Why don't you limit your driving to interstates?

By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 3:40pm

Those are the only roads that were actually made for cars.

The rest of the roads were definitely not made for cars, so you shouldn't drive there.

/your logic

Shorter redbaron

By Miss M
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 6:29pm

"I, personally, have not been hit and killed by a car on Centre St., therefore there is no problem with its traffic pattern."

Seriously?

By Manny
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:34pm

I walk and cross Center St at least 4-5 times a week. This is the quote that I like from your response

"Aside from this unfortunate accident, which looks like it was due to solar glare, most traffic stops for pedestrians or we would have more dead bodies."

Last night I almost got hit crossing Center St from the 7-11 to the Porter Cafe. If you frequent the area you know that the Police station is the building next to the 7-11. Crossing last night already in the cross walk and here comes Mr Ford Explorer bombing around the Rotary and exiting on to Center Street and looked right at me and sped along off towards Rochies all the while having the Police Station on his left. No regard for any one or anything.

If most traffic stops for you then you sir are the luckiest man in WR. We don't have more deaths because pedestrians are aware of the fact that most people DO NOT STOP when there are people crossing.

On top of that the rotary at Holy Name is a death trap. I cannot count how many times I have almost been hit because cars coming off the rotary are speeding and can't (won't) stop

wow stop driving please

By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:08am

I'll admit that I often don't see pedestrians crossing Centre until I'm already going through the crosswalk.

I learned something interesting last week

By Waquiot
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:18am

As part of this plan, they are going to remove signals at a few intersections. Those signals help people cross the street more safely. Removing the signals would do nothing to prevent the death that happened earlier in the year.

I think the bike lanes are a good idea, but this plan does not help pedestrians. It is a plan driven by ideology and opposed by the opposite number.

Really?

By cinnamngrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:58am

http://www.northeastern.edu/peter.furth/road-diet-...

Saving lives is an idealogy? This research and plan has been linked and discussed repeatedly on Uhub, but you just found a missing signal? Do you pay attention to anything you read? This is how you repeatedly offend so many people. Random perverse hot takes to gather attention.

There are two ideologies at work here

By Waquiot
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 2:46pm

If you concede that the group that made this flyer has an ideological bent, the other side must have one too.

By the way, reread my comment and ask yourself what my opinion on this proposal is. It's not too hard to figure out what I wrote. But to summarize, there may be some problems with the plan. The plan is supposed to help pedestrians, but some elements might not help pedestrians in the end. Those problems are probably correctable. Others have offered a defense of the plan, but you decided to take a potshot, because that is who you are and what you do. That is why you repeatedly offend so many people.

Projection

By cinnamngrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 7:37pm

your comment was a random hot take potshot that demonstrates poor understanding of the issue.

Are you comparing the people that made the flyer with Dr. Furth? Are you claiming there opinions about the configuration of Centre have equal foundation in research and design? Because that is dishonest.

So what idealogy are you talking about? Do you have any idea why the road diet is proposed? hint: I linked it again.

Trying reading your own comments and responses. just repeating what I wrote is silly.

tl/dr

By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 7:54pm

w
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l

s
a
v
e

y
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u

b
o
t
h

s
o
m
e

t
i
m
e
.

thank you

By cinnamngrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 8:08pm

thank you

Brilliant

By Waquiot
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:08pm

(She’s a bit obsessed with me.)

off topic, but then you don't

By cinnamngrl*
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 9:08am

off topic, but then you don't understand the topic so...

Narrator: No, she isn't.

By MattyC
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 10:22am

Narrator: No, she isn't.

Except...

By DOT Worker
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:59am

You def heard the news last week, but you didn't seem to learn anything except the news.

Removing additional intersections, especially aging signals, is likely more of an attempt to allow an easier flow of traffic instead of uncoordinated signals that create more traffic; and consequentially, safety concerns as drivers may decide to run more red lights to avoid waiting at the signal for another cycle. It has been shown that decreasing the crossing distance (with sidewalk bump outs) and implementing RRFBs is an effective method to allow pedestrians to safely cross the roadway, as well as increasing driver compliance.

a+++++++ this is a useful and

By locke
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:32am

a+++++++ this is a useful and informative post

Bruh

By eeka
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 9:41am

this isn't eBay

It will be safe to cross

By Bill B
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 10:38am

The signals were added because it’s never safe to cross four lanes. With one lane each way people can cross safely with a crosswalk and not a light. The traffic study (if you believe in research done by experts) showed those intersections don’t have enough traffic turning onto Centre to require a stoplight. Once the road is three lanes people only need to get one driver’s attention at a time to cross. And drivers will have less road to watch and more attention for walkers. The major benefit here is two less stops when you’re driving. Saves time.

Excuse me?

By Bob Leponge
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 1:49pm

The reason the woman was hit was because of solar glare

No, that's not at all the reason the woman was hit. The woman was hit because a driver, knowing full well that solar glare was interfering with the driver's ability to see, decided not to do what any responsible person would do and bring the vehicle to a stop, but instead decided to continue piloting 4,000 lbs of steel blindly into a crowded stretch of road.

I don't normally wade into these bike v car love fests, but your attempt to excuse recklessly irresponsible driving that led to a human fatality by blaming it on the sun offends me.

Centre St is very treacherous for crossing

By hollydollydoo
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:42pm

A family friend got hit crossing at the library. During the day. She was hit so hard that she landed on the windshield of the car.

Shows how despirate ValPak is

By Gary C
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 8:16am

Doonesbury has been running old repeat comics where Mike is unable to find a decent job so he stoops to designing handbills for strip clubs. Similar thing here.

West Roxbury....where they'll

By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 8:49am

West Roxbury....where they'll yell at you to "move to the suburbs if you don't like the city" but yet roll up their sidewalks at 8pm.

North of Boston

By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:16am

A similar crowd whines about parking being a disability issue (which it is), then freaks out when anyone suggests that maybe street parking should therefore be reserved for people with disabilities and everyone else use the ample parking in the lot behind the businesses and at City Hall instead (and walk).

Funny, no mention of the overwhelming opposition.

By Roztonian
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:14am

Funny, no mention of the overwhelming resident and business owner opposition from the meeting mentioned in this post. Spin much? No bike pun intended.

Spin?

By adamg
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:20am

Oh, please. Yes, there are people making sincere arguments against the proposal. But we're not talking about them here - the subject here is angry fantasists with delusions of grandeur making up conspiracies by an alleged Big Bicycle and a cabal of jealous people who can't afford to live in God's Own Country to ruthlessly destroy an entire neighborhood. And now they've gone beyond just harrumphing at community meetings - and denying that anybody who lives there could possibly disagree with them - to putting out actual money to promote their fantasy.

I'm honestly wondering if

By Miss M
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 10:40am

I'm honestly wondering if this is from the same person who put bumper stickers all over W.Rox. saying you shouldn't shop at stores that don't wish you a Merry Christmas. Same energy.

no

By cinnamngrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 10:59am

But I wonder if the local sales rep for Valpak is trying to generate interest from it's customers.

majority of people oppose - "we're not talking about them here"

By Roztonian
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:18am

So the majority of people oppose the plan (which is the reason for the insert) but - "we're not talking about them here".....ggggotcha.

"And now they've gone beyond just harrumphing at community meetings"...So if people strongly oppose something and have legitimate concerns they are "harrumphing" - cool, cool.

Seems pretty objective to me.

Look, the insert is over the top - I agree on that. But it is the result of the fact the the overwhelming majority of people in West Roxbury are against this plan.

Says who?

By adamg
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 3:37pm

I'm unaware of any actual polling on the issue.

Look, the insert is over the top - I agree on that.

So you agree with my reasoning for why I wrote the post the way I did. Thanks.

nope

By Roztonian
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 4:00pm

I'm sure you were at the meeting - and know of the opposition.

I said I agree that the insert is over the top - I think the overwhelming opposition to the plan is a real thing, and opposing opinions should not be dismissed as nimby-ism or "harrumphing" as you put it.

Overwhelming?

By Mark-
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:32am

I certainly haven’t been overwhelmed by the cars-over-everything people.

Interesting word choice

By Bill B
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 1:58pm

I can’t get enough of these folks who think all of West Roxbury is represented by the dozen people they talk to.
At the holy name meeting 30+ spoke in favor and five against. Most identified themselves as residents.
The anti-road diet candidate, Marty Keough, lost the preliminary election to unknown candidates that support the road diet. He got less than 12% in WR’s ward.
There are people ranting on Facebook, almost entirely echoing disproved alarmist nonsense about the impact of road diets. Signing a petition that isn’t even against the proposal, but against made up impacts like slower emergency response (not only wrong but opposite).
Hundreds of people signed a petition (with local addresses) supporting the actual proposal.
But keep saying everyone is against it.

Rumor is that the mayor is

By City Hall Watcher
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:54am

Rumor is that the mayor is backing away from this Centre St plan. If you're a resident who wants this plan to happen, time to flood the emails listed on that insert and let them know you want the road diet with protected bike lanes. The loud NIMBYs are the minority per usual but they have the mayor's ear allegedly, mostly due to campaign donations.

Really, because I heard a

By MattyC
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 10:24am

Really, because I heard a rumor that the Mayor wants cars to stop killing people and therefore supports it. You name your source, I'll name mine, but I bet mine works in City Hall and yours doesn't.

I know exactly who paid for this insert

By Parkwayne
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:19am

Adam Gaffin.

Just look at the web views and comments on this post. It's a gold mine!

Not out of his own pocket, though

By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:22am

He's going to do a chargeback to Soros.

Well, Congratulations Whatever Group Paid for This

By Iresd
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:27am

I'd signed the petition and told my city councilor, but now you've got this life-long WR resident sending an email to everyone on that *stupid* flyer about how I support the Road Diet. Well done!

speed kills

By Bobp
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 1:47pm

The woman was hit because of speed, ignoring the other car stopped for a crosswalk and solar glare.
The bike lanes have become a convenient scapegoat for everyone who does not want change.
Driving Centre twice a day, I can tell you that no one has slowed down. People still routinely don’t stop for people in crosswalks and they make illegal u turns and run red lights.
Slowing the traffic by creating tow travel lanes and a turn lane is the best solution. Sorry I will gladly give up a few minutes of my daily commute to make it safer for everyone.
PS the letter in the Bulletin two weeks ago sounded a lot like this flyer.

Just did the same

By Manny
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 3:35pm

Not only because I am in favor of the road diet and bike lanes but if this does get implemented it will make that Redbaron guy's head explode and that can't be a bad thing.

who did it?

By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 11:57am

I sure don't know, but look for whoever spells it "neighboorhood"

How many people

By GrampaNurgle
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 6:24pm

Actually commute by bike from West Roxbury? It’s most likely not even in triple digits, and it makes absolutely no sense to spend tens of millions of taxpayer dollars and screw over tens of thousands of car commuters just to placate a couple dozen rabid frothy-mouthed bike zealots.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

By anon
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:13pm

Winner winner chicken dinner...another "I got mine screw the rest of you."

Apparently its 44 per day

By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:26pm

Thats on Weld Street west of Centre Street.

https://www.boston.gov/departments/boston-bikes/bi...

But of course this isn't just about biking, its also about dangerous road design and curtailing as much road violence as possible. Makes plenty of sense to spend money on that.

Also pretty clear that its not tens of thousands but about 3,446 motorists per day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You have to be Kidding 44 Bike Trips!!!!!!!!!

By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:42pm

44 Bike trips 1.3%, of the vehicles and we suppose change the whole Business district. all of the Heavy routes were in town probably college kids short bike rides.

How do you feel about congestion pricing/market rate parking?

By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:49pm

After all, you just told me its a heavy route. Be it one lane or four lanes, induced demand is a thing and if you build it they will come. Might as well make em pay a premium for it.

Oh and we can do away with the freebie 2 hour car storage, gotta price that and let the free market reign amirite?

Remember, this isn't just about bikes but dealing with dangerous road violence caused by motorists and poorly design streets.

all of the Heavy routes were in town probably college kids short bike rides.

I'm assuming you have some data for this chief?

It's College kids, Longwood Medical Area

By redbaron
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 5:54pm

and people who live in the Back Bay, South end, How many people are coming in from outside of JP even. Minimal. Stop wasting our time. NO BIKE LANES. Improve traffic lights,
better crosswalks, slow down traffic. Fine but NO BIKE LANES. out of the question

Wrong

By Manny
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 11:47am

It’s me. I take my bike up to the business on Center St on a regular basis. Bike to get a burrito? Yes please. Bike to get my haircut? Yes please. Bike to Rochies? Yes (I put the bags in the crate on the back). You get the idea. I try my hardest to stay off of Center St in the car. It sucks.

To me the road diet comes down to this. Will it be safer for everyone ? If you believe the research (and I do) then yes it will be. Will it cost me a few minutes when I drive on Center Street ? Yes. Oh well.

Sure thing skip!

By GrampaNurgle
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 7:40pm

We, the 4000 something drivers, will be delighted to pay for those two travel lanes as soon as the 44 of you clowns pay for the other two travel lanes you want converted into your precioussssss bike lanessssss. 50/50 split since you want half of the available space all to yourself, sounds fair?

Maybe

By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 7:57pm

You can also contribute to a fund for the people you kill.

You sure you wanna make that deal?

By spin_o_rama
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 8:11pm

Remember how roads are funded before you go making arguments like that.

The report documents that the amount that road users pay through gas taxes now accounts for less than half of what’s spent to maintain and expand the road system. The resulting shortfall is made up from other sources of tax revenue at the state and local levels, generated by drivers and non-drivers alike.

https://frontiergroup.org/media/fg/true-costs-driving

Self-owns are so delicious. Next!

Ah yes

By GrampaNurgle
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:29pm

It’s all about the gas tax. Excise tax, license, registration, inspection and sales tax do not exist, they’re all just a product of the overactive cager imagination.

You’re paying over $1100/year for your car fees?

By Ian
Wed, 10/16/2019 - 9:57pm

Not sure what state you’re in, since that’s way more than I’m paying for my MA registration, inspection, license, etc. Have you considered maybe switching to a bicycle? They’re a lot cheaper!

Most of those other fees don

By DTP
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 8:51am

Most of those other fees don't directly fund roads.

License and registration fees pay largely to run the RMV.

Inspection fees don't really raise any money at all. Stations usually lose money on them.

Sales tax pays for a ton of things. Roads are but one tiny portion of it.

No matter how you slice and dice it, user fees don't come anywhere close to funding our roads, and that gap in funding is made up through general revenue (e.g. sales tax) that is paid by everyone, regardless of whether they own a car.

Also, as has been pointed out umpteen million times, the majority of cyclists also own cars, and thus pay all those taxes and fees. It's possible to use different modes of transportation for different trips. It doesn't have to be zero-sum.

You didn't read the article

By spin_o_rama
Thu, 10/17/2019 - 8:54am

While congressional bailouts of the Highway Trust Fund have made this subsidy more apparent, it has actually never been the case that road users paid their own way. Not only that, but the amount of their subsidy has steadily increased in recent years. The share of the costs paid from road-user fees has dropped from about 70 percent in the 1960s to less than half today, according to the study.